Relative poverty

[Shayne]

I chanced upon this

and found it thought provoking .

The world bank has a target to end extreme poverty by 2030 which is an admirable goal , but what follows when they are all promoted to relative poverty if the most advance nation in the free world seems to have settled on free parking as a solution ?

No reason for this post other than to prompt discussion , if it does . But even if it doesn't interest you jump to exactly 27 minutes in the vid and wonder what future generations might see .

 

[clivehorridge]

I saw this video a couple of weeks ago, and for sure, it’s thought provoking.
I don’t live in the UK anymore, but one thing that has taught me in 19 years away, is the importance of some of the aspects of the UK which are often taken for granted by the current generation of Brits.
The UKs social security system is often criticized, and in many cases quite rightly. But at the same time, it serves to prevent or at least minimize the desperate plight of those depicted in this video, in one of the richest countries of the world.
In terms of national health, the concept of everyone contributing a small amount of their income in order for the total population to have medical facilities, has to be the answer, despite the shortcomings of such a system.
I paid into the UK NH system for 37 years and in return, I went to the doctor once and he told me I had a bad back. But I don’t begrudge any of those contributions, because it safeguarded me from the potential situation that I might have needed much more regular and costly treatment. In this video, the sight of a temporary field hospital in the USA totally funded by volunteers treating thousands of folks with various ailments, was horrific.
The president of that country, whatever his name or political bent, should be ashamed. I try not to be pro left or pro right wing in these matters, because that shouldn’t be the issue. The UKs NHS (or whatever it might be called these days) has survived countless left and right wing governments, because both have recognized that it’s essential for the wellbeing of the nation. I trust that one day, the USA will come to its senses in this regard. Social security exists in the USA, it just seems to me that it’s way less organized, efficient and effective than it is elsewhere in the world, where it operates.

All I can say, is look after your national institutions guys, they may not be perfect, but you don’t know what you’ve got till it’s gone.

Sadly, every time I revisit the UK, it looks more and more like some of the scenes in this video and depresses me no end. I have no reasons to return.

 

[Shayne]

Same thoughts invaded me on watching it Clive and many many more . Those people in the field hospital have it far better than many of our homeless here in the UK .

I always had it in my mind that if you can't make it here then travel to some place you can , even if you have to beg a train fair , but then we both left home which to some is just not an option .

I tried to find comparison vids in Europe or wherever but got only this

. This guy ain't skint , he smokes ffs but again it made me wonder if the problem is simply ignored , and how many young people suffer that same forlorn sense of doomed detachment .

Shift those in extreme poverty into relative poverty without doing anything about the latter and what do we get ?

Beyond soaring crime rates my mind goes blank turning an initial positive goal on its head to give entirely negative results .

 

[Chas]

Same thoughts invaded me on watching it Clive and many many more . Those people in the field hospital have it far better than many of our homeless here in the UK .

I always had it in my mind that if you can't make it here then travel to some place you can , even if you have to beg a train fair , but then we both left home which to some is just not an option .

I tried to find comparison vids in Europe or wherever but got only this

. This guy ain't skint , he smokes ffs but again it made me wonder if the problem is simply ignored , and how many young people suffer that same forlorn sense of doomed detachment .

Shift those in extreme poverty into relative poverty without doing anything about the latter and what do we get ?

Beyond soaring crime rates my mind goes blank turning an initial positive goal on its head to give entirely negative results .

It said in that video he gets about 900 euros a month pension that is about £750, a Brit monthly state pension is £554, so I would say British pensioners are worse off.
I am lucky I have a company pension as well, I just can't see how our OAP's manage with only the state pension.

 

[jibberjabber]

The NHS and the Welfare system in the UK, has only ever been used as a political pawn ever since it's inception back in 1948, the Politicians have all blamed each other for it's shortcomings, and then they they all take the credit when it does well.

My 'Old Man' remembers the popular Government slogan in 1948 "From the cradle to the grave".

On the other hand, my Grandmother, (God rest her soul) she was one of eleven, used to tell me what it was like in the 'bad old days' before the NHS, when her parents had to scrape together pennies to pay the doctor.

I think we all owe a big debt of gratitude to all the under paid, over worked and taken for granted, members of the NHS, Fire Brigade, Coast Guard, Police force, and all the other essential services, who are all the best in the world.

Oh, and while I'm at it, the State Pension in the UK is a joke, I think, the biggest problem is that successive Governments look at the State Pension as a 'Benefit' not a 'Right'

Off soap box now.

 

[Shayne]

It said in that video he gets about 900 euros a month pension that is about £750, a Brit monthly state pension is £558, so I would say British pensioners are worse off.
I am lucky I have a company pension as well, I just can't see how our OAP's manage with only the state pension.

I think most with only state pension will also get help with housing costs so its likely about the same Chas . But that's just a cloud in the fog .

They have no private pension because they always paid rent , renting costs more than buying a house but for millions to save enough for the deposit to get a mortgage is an impossible dream - because they will never earn much more than they pay rent . And like as not their kids will grow up into the same cycle because there is no bank of mom and dad to help them break the cycle .

Education is the answer some will say and i say bollocks , the poorest don't go on school trips or join school sports teams or play musical instruments or do any of the things that kids are supposed to enjoy about school . They are punished for being poor , so what do we offer them by way of hope ?

 

[jibberjabber]

As you can tell, I find certain subjects a little emotive, so I'm back on my 'Soap Box'

The thing is with regard to State Pension, is that not only did the Government rob us of years of pension by puttung the State Pensionable age up, under the pretext of 'were all living longer' a load of old bull IMHO.

They also moved the goal posts, with regard to the number of 'Qualifying Years', yes you guessd it, they added more years, not only but also, they took away 'Pension Credits' witch was based on your personal income, and bought in 'Universal Credit' that is based on household income, so, if your partners income is above a certain amount, you get nothing to top up the State Pension that you thought was going to be the full amount, because, under the old system you did have enough 'Qualifying Years'.

But the Politicians are happy keeping the Bankers happy, who started this so called 'Down Turn' in the first place, and is still jogging along 12 years down the line.

And as you say Shayne, whats going to happen when all the 'Bank of Mum & Dad's' have gone.

I was only saying the other day, and I think some of you 'might' agree, "We had the the best of times, in the 60's, 70's and 80's".

Also, I am expecting an 'EU remainer' to say 'the NHS will get worse now that we are out of the EU', and my answer will be, it's the bloody EU that got the NHS into the so called 'Mess it's In' by allowing this country to be overwhelmed.

Glad it's only a small 'Soap Box' up down, up down, still, keep's me fit.

Hope Y'all have a good Saturday evening, I'm going to watch a film from the 70's, think it's called 'Debbie does something in a large southern American city in Texas, it's suspossed to be a classic, so I'm told.

 

[David]

More like Debbie got done somewhere in Texas

 

[jibberjabber]

More like Debbie got done somewhere in Texas

Looks like Debbie got done all over Texas, bet she blames the 'Bankers' as well.

 

[Dave_S]

At the risk of causing anger.. if you want a decent pension, you work your arse off, and you save, and you make it happen. Personally I see the state pension as a safety net and nothing more - you are responsible for yourself - present and future.

 

[Dave_S]

BTW - I don't buy into this "poor can't do it" nonsense either. I grew up working class, parents never owned their own house, I started doing odd jobs, mowing lawns, etc, as soon as I was able. No bank of mum and dad, my dad died of lung cancer when I was 19. I worked my ass off - saved, bought a house, traded up, worked harder... and provide for my family and sorted my own pension. You just have to work hard, then harder again...

 

[Shayne]

Bully for you Dave .

When i met Helen (19 years ago) she worked 5 part time jobs to make 12 hours pay a day 7 days a week , mornings she cleaned a rugby club bar that was open nightly to the public and held about 250 people , from there she would go to be a school dinner caterer , from there she would return to finish the rugby club , from there she would come home to cook for the kids before dropping them off at their grandparents on her way to the office block she cleaned . From there she would go to clean a different school . Then she would come home to feed herself because she couldn't start cleaning a wedding function hotel (spa , swimming pool , gym) until after midnight .

As reward for 20 years of hard work she had been told anti-depressants for life , she was over 20 grand in debt and threats of eviction from her council house was a monthly occurrence not to mention all the threats of court over other debts . How she got into that position is a long story of bad decisions made on trust , a bad relationship and expert financial planning from these guys https://www.gregorypennington.co.uk...MIu6XoyNSx5wIVjLTtCh1DjgW1EAAYASAAEgJDu_D_BwE who charged her £164 a month to turn her A1 credit rating into CCJ's and defaults .

I of course was oblivious to all this until her car engine blew up because she couldn't afford to service it and her house of cards came crashing down . I was skint at the time , a hospital patient for several years who refused to stay in hospital . I gave her every penny of benefits i got in return for roof and food . Fortunately perhaps because my infirmity gave me time to learn how to dictate laws while negotiating on her behalf with debt collection agencies , the council , courts , until after many years she could consolidate it all into one manageable/affordable dead end with an interest only mortgage which is insanity for most but because she had earned a right to buy discount over about 15 years it made her once again solvent - if she sold . With or without me .

Oh she listened to my medical advice to , i would love to have been a fly on the wall when she told her doc she no longer takes any medication 6 months after he told her it was impossible . (insert laughing face) but how is it funny when a medical professional writes someone off as broken beyond repair ?

 

[jibberjabber]

At the risk of causing anger.. if you want a decent pension, you work your arse off, and you save, and you make it happen. Personally I see the state pension as a safety net and nothing more - you are responsible for yourself - present and future.

Safety net or not, you've paid for it so it's a 'right' not a benifit, if you don't need it give it to a charity, I suggest the RSPCA.

 

[jibberjabber]

BTW - I don't buy into this "poor can't do it" nonsense either. I grew up working class, parents never owned their own house, I started doing odd jobs, mowing lawns, etc, as soon as I was able. No bank of mum and dad, my dad died of lung cancer when I was 19. I worked my ass off - saved, bought a house, traded up, worked harder... and provide for my family and sorted my own pension. You just have to work hard, then harder again...

Intresting backstory, I think we all did that 40 years ago, sorry to hear that about your Dad. And I admire and applaud your work ethic.

But, there's a big difference between 40 odd years ago and modern times.

Bet you could't do the same thing nowdays, with, as of November 2019 the average house price in the UK is £235,298, and First-time buyers need an average £53,000 salary to buy a home, average earnings are only 25,000 or less, for 23 year old's

My first cottage was in the much sought after village of Alveston nr Stratford upon Avon, my salary in 1980 was 8,800 per annum, and the cottage was 22,000.

You do the maths.

Financially speaking, alot has changed in the last 40 years, compared to the previous 40 years.

Relatively, the costs involved in buying a house in 1980 and now in 2020 are just not comparable, the young'uns don't stand a chance nowdays.

 

[goodoldboy]

I worked my ass off - saved, bought a house, traded up, worked harder..

That isn't possible now.The street where my uncle bought a house for 200 guineas in the mid 60s you'd need north of 250K now.He was a miller at Dunlop & had 3 kids.
As Shayne said lots of folks work their arses off just to pay rent & eat.The first video describes the reality of the USA where the wealthiest have taken more & more , to the point where having a job doesn't guarantee a home.blaming the victims is always what the powerful do but you are an ordinary bloke so why do you subscribe to this idea?

 

[Paddler Ed]

Most people under the age of about 35 if they are in the South of England are waiting for parents or Grandparents to die; sell their places and use the inheritance to get on the property ladder... but that only works if they don't end up in an old people's home.

Most of my mates back in the UK own their own place (and have worked up the property ladder based on paper appreciation - ie they bought somewhere, sold it a few years later for (much) more than they paid for it, and bought somewhere bigger for about the same mortgage payment), but when I was working in the UK (10+ years ago) in Local Government I was on £30k, and paying about £600/month rent, which wouldn't have put me into that great position for buying (but the Fylde and Wyre was relatively cheap so doable)... thankfully I didn't as the 2008 GFC and then the 2009 Austerity cuts would have left me very much upside down.

However, those austerity cuts that have gutted local government positions (and thus the support services that they provided to those in need) I would argue have been the most damaging action for the UK, and the biggest step backwards in a long time.

 

[Dave_S]

Cheers JJ. I bought my first place 25 years ago, and you're right, we were very lucky back then, that this was achievable. But it still took a lot of work, mind.

GOB - The original post was made with the intention of prompting discussion; I don't subscribe to the idea that what is happening in the US or indeed everywhere else around the world, is positive, and I'm not blaming anyone; my main point was that starting from a poor background does not prevent you from getting a decent education and working hard.

 

[Higgy]

I love the Narrators Comment at 19. 57 mins... "Being poor, to the point of starving".. As the Lady in the Hoodie waddled up the road after her Hubby.. "See 'yawl' tomorra'... I think the real meaning of Poverty got Lost somewhere.....

 

[jibberjabber]

Cheers JJ. I bought my first place 25 years ago, and you're right, we were very lucky back then, that this was achievable. But it still took a lot of work, mind.

GOB - The original post was made with the intention of prompting discussion; I don't subscribe to the idea that what is happening in the US or indeed everywhere else around the world, is positive, and I'm not blaming anyone; my main point was that starting from a poor background does not prevent you from getting a decent education and working hard.

starting from a poor background does not prevent you from getting a decent education and working hard.

I do agree with @Dave_S statement.

But of course, other factores haven't been mentioned, like how to start all over again after a divorce, usually and traditionally, the woman (sorry, I don't know what the PC term is for 'wife') has come off best.

The youngsters have many, many more distractions, mobile phones, computers, drugs, and so on and so forth, as opposed to working and saving.

Our Great Grandparents instilled Victorian Values into our Grand Parents, and in turn to our Parents, then on to us, then to our kids, all the time the Victorian Values have been watered down by each generation, to almost nothing now.

Most, and I say most, not all, of the Victorian values were very sound, after all most of us in this debate were in our teen's or very close to, in the 60's and we were rebels, or so we thought, and look what happned to us, yes we 'worked hard and saved money' to buy a house....Victorian Values.

So, like I said, I think, we had the best of times in the 60's, 70's and 80's.

 

[jibberjabber]

Sorry, forgot to say, Gold DAB & Internet radio, play only 60's, 70's and 80's music, so we must of had the 'best of times'

Keep on keeping on, Man.

One of my favourite Victorian saying's.....'Youth is waisted on the young'