Strong Diesel Smell and Lazy Starting - 3.0td

[Rob Johnson]

Hi Folks,

Happy New year to all.

Question is pretty much as the title, The past couple of weeks my 3.0td 95 (1997 Prado) has been smelling really strongly of diesel after start up and for the first few miles. It seems to go away but this could be me either getting used to the smell or the fumes affecting my small brain.

Also, I used it yesterday after a week or so of standing on the drive and it really struggled to start, taking a few attempts, when it eventually did start it seemed to miss a little for a few seconds then pick up, there was also a lot of smoke which quickly returned to normal as the engine picked up!!

It is normally an 'on the button' starter and although it was cold and had stood a week, it would normally fire on the first click with no smoke or anything.

Any pointers or ideas would be gratefully received?

Cheers

Rob

 

[SpinDrift]

I had a similar problem a while back - same symptoms, sometimes to the extreme that the engine would turn over but would not fire. You probably have a leak in the system between the tank and the diesel pump. This causes air to get into the system. A short term fix to help get the engine started is to prime the pump. You might have to press it as many as 20 times. This will get diesel bak into the system.

In my case we initially thought that the pump was the problem. It was changed - around a £100 something I think it was. But this did not fix it. In my case t turned out to be the feed coming out of the tank. The pipes were corroded. In order to change the feed you would need to drop the tank. The part itself is not expensive - less than £100.

The other area, and probably where you should start, is the fuel line between the tank and the pump. This is the easiest thing to check as all you would need to do is to follow the line and for traces of diesel seepage.

 

[Chris]

Gosh Reinhard, I had completely forgotten about that cause. I was the first to suffer with that IIRC. I shall see if I can find the original post from the other forum. It's not necessary to buy a new pick up assembly though, I just sawed the end of the pipe off and put the hose back on. But the symptoms were like that.

Chris

 

[Rob Johnson]

Cheers guys, i'll have a look about underneath but I haven't noticed anything underneath when it's been parked up.

It could explain the terrible fuel consumption....................hang on........it's always been terrible

 

[Chris]

Rob, it doesn't leak much. The tube on top of the tank goes into tiny holes and the fuel leaks mostly back into the tank as air goes in via the holes. It does drip onto the top of the and but gets soaked up buy all the dirt. If you scrabble yourself under there and try to get you hand up onto the front top side of the tank and feel about you might get a result. If it's damp and diesely then that's it. But if you come away dry around the pipes then it may not be that. Next time you come to start it when it's been parked, you can pull off the supply pipe to the fuel filter and see if there is fuel in it. If not it must have drained somewhere. Or pull of the pipe on the engine side and look in there. Either way if there's no fuel it's drained somewhere. The 80 suffers with a similar draining and siphoning problem. I fitted a 12 mm in line check valve and that cured it. If there is enough fuel in the engine side of the tubing then it will pull fuel through when you start it up.

Chris

 

[Rob Johnson]

I see, that would explain it and why it's worse the longer it's left.

I'll have a feel about tonight and see if I can find anything.

Thanks again mate.

 

[Chris]

This is the cause - of that particular issue.

Chris

 

[SpinDrift]

There were no obvious visible signs with mine. No deisel stains on the ground. It was a process of elimination. Unfortunately we started with the wrong more expensive part.

The pickup was around £50 and 1 or 2 hours labour.

 

[Rob Johnson]

I take it the tank has to come off to modify/repair the pick-up pipe?

Is this much off a job? anything to be aware of?

 

[Chris]

Yes it does. Now there is a post over on the old site all about removing the tank. It's neither technical nor that tricky really. Takes half an hour. Best of it's empty of course so run it low and then take out the bung underneath and drain it. When you get the tank off it's worth taking the sender unit out completely and having a look in your tank especially at the tea bag strainer on the end.

et voilà

http://www.tlocuk.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3526

Chris

 

[Beau]

When I last dropped my tank I gave it a few coats of hamerite to try to prevent this for the future.

 

[Rob Johnson]

Cheers!!

Why do these things happen in the winter? Still, I suppose I'd be gutted if we finally got some snow and it wouldn't start!

Rob

 

[Toycruiser90]

Hi Rob
I fixed the same problem on New Year's Eve by coincidence, without removing the tank, after 3 months of wrongly blaming battery/connections , glowplugs, sensors, fuel filter assembly, narrowed problem down to air in diesel, and then with reading E.L.C.O Club info traced to the same fuel supply pipe at front of diesel tank just as the other guys described earlier. (Great picture by the way Chris).
Its the larger middle pipe, with a 10mm rubber hose connected to it, all I did was bought a foot of new 10mm fuel hose from local motor factors, and 2 extra jubilee type clips in case, waited till diesel tank was about 1/4 full,
I raised rear of Cruiser at the chassie/tow bar brackets - keeping rear wheels on the ground, positioned axle stands under the vehicle, this gave me about 6" extra working space between rear axle and tank, giving me enough access to the pipe concerned.
Using small pliers released the hose spring clips at both ends of the rubber hose, pulled off the rubber hose completely, cut new pipe about 25mm longer than the one removed, I cleaned the dirt off the metal pipe on the tank about 25mm further than the orignal pipe had been pushed on, I applied engine oil to both ends of hose and metal pipes for easier sliding, widened both ends of rubber hose a little, (I used the handle of the pliers for this,)
Pushed on the new hose on tank 25mm further than the orignal pipe, i.e 25mm past the bulge on the metal pipe where the holes are as seen in Chris's excellent picture, usiing some engine oil makes it alot easier to push it on, fitted the pipe spring clip in the new position, pushed on the other end of the rubber hose and fitted the pipe clip. job done !!!
To bleed air from the fuel line - removed outlet pipe from fuel filter assembly (outlet is smaller pipe), push primer pump till diesel comes, also fill rubber pipe so no air in that either, refit pipe.
Engine should now start OK,
It now starts straight away just like it used to do before this happened.

Thanks Chris and everybody for all the info I found here on E.L.C.O Club !!!!
...............................Bob,

 

[Chris]

Sneaky! Nice work. Easier once you know where the hole actually is. Clearly is is one of the few, but more common failure points on the Colorado. Simple fix though. Pretty tight up there for ferreting around though.

Chris

 

[Toycruiser90]

Yes its limited access but alot easier as you say when you know the holes are just around that little bulge on the pipe and I dont like to tackle any job till I know as much as possible about whats involved, so thanks again all and as some clever person once said "If you stand on the shoulders of Gaints you can find the problem easier or something like that"
.........Bob

 

[Rob Johnson]

Cheers for all the comments.

I dropped the tank off mine and the pipes looked OK, they looked like they had previously been undersealed, I couldn't see any signs off leaking.

I then looked at the fuel filter which looked like it had been use to filter a canal!! It isn't so old either!

I had a clean up and fit a new filter and touch wood things seem OK, I'm away for a while so I guess the tester will be to see how it starts when I return, I'll keep you posted!

 

[DaveWall]

Just had to do the pickup pipe on mine - Not sure if it is easier on a LWB but I didn't have to remove any wheels, or fiddly clips...

Drive the rear wheels on two bits of sleeper
Unbolt the Bash Guard (Bolts either side and a couple on the rear cross member)
Unclip the Wiring loom to the tank (Grey plug to the rear of the tank up in the near side corner - clipped to the bodywork)
Squeeze the 3 clips and pull off the three pipes at the front
Undo the two jubliee clips on the filler pipe and the breather pipe which are near the rear near side wheel and make sure these pipes rotate (will pull off)
Then undoo the two straps and lower on the offside first, so the filler pipe and breather pipe slide off, then lower the entire tank

Was out in about 15mins

I had already done filter etc, but was having to crank the engine a bit, now it is back to starting properly.

I did have to put some clear pipe in the fuel hose at the filter end and give it a helping hand sucking to get it to prime up ok. Note you can't just blow down the return pipe on the filter body as it is closed of at the fuel pump somehow (this confused me for a couple mins - thought I had a blockage)

The Part was £48 here in Cheltenham - probably ripped off, but fitted perfect and came with gasket/filter etc

Dave

 

[Rob Johnson]

Just a quick update,

LC stood for a week and a half and started first click, no diesel fumes or other apparent issues.

Touch wood a new filter and a good clean of the housing has sorted it!

Cheers guys

 

[wobbly]

Possibly running the tank too low, and....has it been run on veg oil at all?

Pete

 

[Chris]

The pick up sits in a little bath so it doesn't matter how low you run it really. It's sitting in all the crud that collects in the little bath. That is where it seems to collect rather than actually remaining in the rest of the tank, with the bath staying clear. I guess the muck gets in and can't get out again.

Chris