Suspension options for 80s

[Nick Shepherd]

What are they? I'm aware of OME and Ironman B and that I can get a slightly firmer ride from the OME N73/N74E dampers but are there any other good quality and reasonably priced options readily available in the UK?

I'm currently on something unknown to me but it looks like a good size of lift (maybe 4"?) and the rear dampers are Ranchos. I think I'd prefer a slightly lower lift (say 2") and a slightl;y firmer ride, the dampers now are either losing the damping a touch or are too soft and so are giving a slight wallow through faster bends. I tend to drive at a good pace on the road and rarely go on serious play days but I do enjoy a bit of 'laning I need space for 33" tyres to get a good flex and tend to go out with a Land Rover heavy gang so really don't want to be left for one of them to recover

 

[Nick Shepherd]

Thirty views and no one has an opinion on suspension? Has everyone but me still got stock Toyota suspension?

 

[Gav Peter]

Haven't you been reading the forum? Everyone on here has an opinion on suspension Nick!!!

I have Ironman +4 kit - I like it, it does for me; but I have no experience of anything else so can't really offer you a comparative opinion but it is a fairly talked about subject if you hunt around the forum a bit...

 

[Nick Shepherd]

The problem is that 'suspension' is a massive search term, even limited to the 80 forum and OME, ARB and such get lost. I've had a good read and those two seem to be front runners but it's a tough call.

OME - massively well known, a little pricey but all the problems have been worked out by someone else already and the reputation for long distance travel is unparalleled. If I was doing this to the 60 I wouldn't have gone any further.

Ironman - A lot of people seem keen, there are not many tales of very long term owners and the lower price point seems to be, at least partially, at the expense of the finish. I don't know if they suit moderate lifts and high-ish speed driving or if they are mainly for the monster truck territory

Other - Terra-Firma, Rancho, a heap of other RSA, US and Australian makes that I don't know anything at all about.

 

[chriscolleman]

When I bought my 80 someone had fitted 2,5 inch OME springs and OME shocks.

The vehicle had been on a marroco trip and one of the rear shocks was losing oil and damping. The shock was dented during the trip, so I expect for a decent distance a single rear shock was damping the rear. Hence the 80 wallowed around a fair bit.

I've always liked a firm ride and fitted my favorite gas shock Bilstein.

The result is an 80 that flexes more than adequate for laning and handles well enough on the road.

Can't say how I would set up an 80 to go laning with hardcore defender drivers?
The ones I have encountered often use a lot of gaspedal and momentum to overcome an obstacle. I mostly like to use lockers and just enough gas to get there with aired down tyres.
I personally prefer the tractor approach and not the muscle car.

However I have seen defenders with a V8 engine, auto tranny and unlocked front and rear go far and beyond flinging mud into orbit

 

[Chas]

The ones I have encountered often use a lot of gaspedal and momentum to overcome an obstacle. I mostly like to use lockers and just enough gas to get there with aired down tyres.
I personally prefer the tractor approach and not the muscle car.

As they say 'As slow as possible and as fast as necessary'

 

[chriscolleman]

The ones I have encountered often use a lot of gaspedal and momentum to overcome an obstacle. I mostly like to use lockers and just enough gas to get there with aired down tyres.
I personally prefer the tractor approach and not the muscle car.

As they say 'As slow as possible and as fast as necessary'

Without lockers that official LR quote often equates to.
FLOOR IT!

Never understood the LR way, they design every vehicle that when it drives over an obstacle the wheels with the least traction gets the most power. A great safety feature on road, but offroad its utterly useless.
Just try driving behind a Def and avoid the falling clay?? And then those morrons driving them remove the rear mudflaps designed to disquise the LRs ineffectiveness.
They then invented a system that uses brakes to ensure forward motion, go figure ....

Next they will be losing cylinders in the engines, add another gear in the tranny and generally charm any new buyer with adventurous pics of broken down rolled top heavy vehicles during pointless expeditions?

The fact that I know all this is proof of their effective advertising.

How would I setup an 80 to go bashing with the Defender gang?
Buy a Defender, then they will feel your pain and comfort you with the intimate knowledge of their LRs respective oil sweat spots.

 

[mike54]

Without lockers that official LR quote often equates to.
FLOOR IT!

Never understood the LR way, they design every vehicle that when it drives over an obstacle the wheels with the least traction gets the most power. A great safety feature on road, but offroad its utterly useless.
Just try driving behind a Def and avoid the falling clay?? And then those morrons driving them remove the rear mudflaps designed to disquise the LRs ineffectiveness.
They then invented a system that uses brakes to ensure forward motion, go figure ....

Next they will be losing cylinders in the engines, add another gear in the tranny and generally charm any new buyer with adventurous pics of broken down rolled top heavy vehicles during pointless expeditions?

The fact that I know all this is proof of their effective advertising.

How would I setup an 80 to go bashing with the Defender gang?
Buy a Defender, then they will feel your pain and comfort you with the intimate knowledge of their LRs respective oil sweat spots.

The above demonstrates that you know exactly zero about defenders, and plenty about the ridiculous "tribal" attitude exhibit by many in connection with the toyota vs landrover rubbish so often touted on vehicle specific forums.

I have a defender (my 7th) and an 80 series landcruiser, and they approach the problem in a different way. A 90 - short wheelbase, high body clearance, body bolted straight to chassis, CDL but no locking diffs on the axles. Landcruiser - CDL with front and rear lockers. defender - 2 ton vehicle. landcruiser - 3 ton something vehicle.

If someone driving a defender is just gunning the power then sorry, but they dont know what they're doing and there is no need to do it. These ridiculous statements you make are total twaddle, it's all about the driver and you cannot drive the different vehicles in the same way. I could bang on about torque curves and the difference between the 2 vehicles suspension geometry but frankly that would be dull. The FACT is that both vehicles are fairly evenly matched in terms of offroad ability, though they go about the approach in vastly different ways. Now can I suggest that you take your tribal attitude, learn some tolerance and stop spouting such crap.

 

[Andrew Prince]

I'm currently on something unknown to me but it looks like a good size of lift (maybe 4"?) and the rear dampers are Ranchos. :

Hazarding a guess, could it be a Procomp/Dobinson set-up which seemed to be one of the few options a couple of years back when OME was the main game in town. I'm sure guys like Jon, Ray, Toby and Ian could speculate better than me though!

I need space for 33" tyres to get a good flex and tend to go out with a Land Rover heavy gang so really don't want to be left for one of them to recover

33s will fit on the original std suspension, Nick A 2" lift will allow you to fit 35s with little or no rubbing AFAIK.

I have Ironman on mine and I am very happy with them. Will the shocks outlive the expensive, so-called premium, brands? I don't know and I don't really care - for my needs in the UK, it's never going to be an issue. The Ironman B rides nicely enough normally (a tad harsh unladen but much smoother than the OME +200kg unladen) and perfectly with a reasonable load. The handling is fine with no nasty surprises, it articulates well enough with the standard anti-roll bars and it is good value for money IMHO.

Cheers,

 

[SimonD]

My trucks last owners took the truck to Capetown on Dobinsons and they are ok still for everyday use. Dobinsons have the code imprinted on the side if you can still read it [quite small] but are yellow like OME. Many overlanders I've talked to have suggested that OME spares are reasonably ok to get in some parts of Africa. Some SA guys I have talked to like Bilstein and Koni but both are more expensive than OME. Julian Voelcker gets in Ridepro from Oz where they are well thought of by the locals on LCOOL. I think from memory they work out in between OME and the other two - you'd have to check with Julian though.

 

[Nick Shepherd]

Thanks guys, it's appreciated.

I wonder whether the Bilstein shocks would work well with Ironman springs or to what extent the set-up needs to be matched. It might be a way to get the good damping with a little less outlay.

 

[chriscolleman]

At least I got one bite
now to hook him and reel him in

7th defender, you must be their most loyal customer. I'm still on my second cruiser!

Enough with the fishing and leg pulling.

As stated above the Def 90 and the 80 go about things in a totally different fashion.
As far as laning is concerned the Def is a great vehicle because the rear axle seems to float under the car.
Often they equip the SWB with a front torsion bar, so the vehicle will tend to follow the motion of the front axle.
Not a bad thing considering most of the vehicle weight is often located above the front axle.
Thus giving most traction to the front tyres.

The 80 given its design is more of a heavy duty vehicle, torsion bars front and rear tend to stiffen up the flex. So you need lockers to ensure forward motion. Torsion bars also keep the vehicle more stable in off camber situations. When crawling over rocks you would really like the more stable vehicle because this gives the novice driver more feel for the situation beneath him. And it helps in reducing driveline parts from breaking.

More experienced drivers remove the torsion bars on the 80, fit high flex springs and shocks. And often add liquid to their huge tyres. But this creation isn't something you would appreciate for fairly daily driving. It does crawl over awesome big boulders though.

So how would I set up an 80 for driving amongst the Def 90 crowd.
I wouldn't, just buy a farmyard Def 90. Fix it up and have fun.

Why I don't own a Def 90.
My large frame and bulk simply don't fit in it. Otherwise I'd have one of those awesome V8, auto tranny, Lara Croft ones.

 

[Nick Shepherd]

that's lovely Chris now how about you PM this instead?

Mike, if you feel at all compelled to respond I'd really appreciate it if you PM Chris directly.

 

[mike54]

that's lovely Chris now how about you PM this instead?

Mike, if you feel at all compelled to respond I'd really appreciate it if you PM Chris directly.

A public forum promotes public responses, not private ones. If someone is going to be deliberately inflammatory then they must expect a public response. If a moderator doesn't like it then the offending posts can presumably be removed. I'm all for debate about vehicles, it's good fun, though the persistent and childish X is better than Y so there posts are tiresome and unneccessary, and that goes for the ones on LR forums re toyotas as well.

 

[Nick Shepherd]

And you don't feel that a response - under whatever provocation - is needlessly disruptive to a thread looking for actual information? Perhaps even a little rude of both of you to carry on in this pointlessly tribal manner?

We've all seen the same old circular and fruitlessly childish arguments about which car is best and we all also know that the answer to them all is "I'm a grown man and I'll drive whatever the hell I please".

Your response to my request to take your argument elsewhere shows a lack of common respect and is simply a slightly more eloquent version of "Well he started it".

 

[BRE Fabrications LTD]

Hey Nick,

If the height doesn't bother you why not just upgrade your shocks and see how you go from there.

I have been looking into bringing in a set of 10" Fox 2.0 Remote reservoir shocks from http://www.downsouthmotorsports.com in the US. They can build the shock up for you so it is bolt on and tune it for you too. Something else that can be added are their compression damping adjusters which allow you to firm up the shock for say daily driving and then if you so wish soften them for offroading.

Some good reading here on them fitted to 80 series cruisers: http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/245970-fox-shox-2-0s-4.html

I was quoted the following prices:
Front - Fox 2.0 smooth body shock with remote reservoir in stem to stem mounting in 10" Travel and the shock would be $219.00 each. (£135)

Rear - in a 10" Travel would be $175.00 each. (£110)
CD adjusters are $85 extra per shock
Shipping is $175.00

Not bad money when you look at what OME shocks cost, never mind a full lift kit. All in you could have a set landed for about £650.00 and you'd have a far superior shock.

 

[Nick Shepherd]

That's the idea I was having Ryan, just get new shocks and see where that left me but I don't know for sure what lift is fitted just now and I'd rather not buy something really costly that would turn out to either not work with the existing set up or not work with any future springs I bought to reduce the lift a little.

I've been through a good number of 'Mud threads on the subject but was keen to get a UK perspective on availability and good or bad experiences with UK or European distributors.

I just had a look at Koni Heavy Tracks and Bilstein B6 and they are both something like £100 a corner. Not as expensive as I was expecting.

 

[chriscolleman]

Sorry if my blatent tongue in cheek remarks about the LR vehicles sparked a fire.

I've fitted both the Koni heavytracks and the bilstein shocks to various vehicles and these are my personal opinion on the matter.

Both are round about the same price, so we need a closer look at the product.

The Koni shocks are a great product and you can dial them in several clicks firmer and softer.

The Bilstein B6 is also a great shock, slightly more solid built then the Koni shock and the gaspressure inside will add some lift to the vehicle.

For a vehicle that is mostly used to travel short distances I use the konis, they are really nice from a standstill.

For a vehicle that travels a reasonable distance each day I use the Bilsteins, they are very firm in the morning. But one the tyres heat up to operating temp, then the shocks get slightly cushier and they provide a great ride all day long. I've never had a bilstein turn soggy. And when they do get old and tired, simply hand them in to a specialised shop and they'll rebuild them for you.

I was given this advice a long time ago by an amateur rally driver and it has served me well over the years.

You could go all the way and have some Fox shocks made or ordered to spec, but then you really know what you're doing.

 

[Nick Shepherd]

Thanks very much Chris.

I think those seem to be front runners now, and your input on the behaviour of them is invaluable.

The built to spec option is almost definitely wasted on me, it always was when I rode bikes and I know less about the efects on big vehicles I'm keen to hear your experiences though Ryan.

 

[Rob]

Where would you get some Koni heavytracks or bilstein shocks in the UK?