The end of slavery

[Chas]

This was the abolition of slavery itself, GB had banned the slave trade long before,& stopped other countries doing it too. Tell that to the BLM brigade!

 

[Rob Cowell]

OK, I'll bite.

Tell them what? Some people got fabulously wealthy from buying and selling people as property, with the full support of the GB government. And then some people thought that was maybe a bit icky, so the UK government asked the wealthy people to stop it. But as the wealthy people were were often MPs or friends of MPs the legislation only got through on the understanding we took loads of money from regular citizens of the Empire and gave it to the already fabulously wealthy people? Makes you proud, doesn't it?

Also, I haven't shot anyone this week, so where is my medal?

 

[Chas]

There's no pleasing some people, OK Rob, Tell them that they are wrong in tearing down so called slavers statues, rioting about the UK's history of slaving and generally complaining about all that is WHITE!
.

 

[Shayne]

There will be no WLM movement because the whites taken as slaves didn't survive to have ancestors .

What was normal then is not normal now and 100 years from now they will be talking about how barbaric we were .

 

[Shayne]

These provide an entertaining read and i reckon some insight into how life and death was viewed with indifference in the 1870's



The movie 12 years a slave bored me because it fails to reflect the true cruelty of a time when the average life expectancy was just 40 years old .

 

[flint]

BLM is more about this sort of thing these days: Racist abusers targeted Aberystwyth student on train - [Leaving Land Cruiser Club]

If you look through here, it will help understand how much of UK wealth is based on slavery:

Legacies of British Slavery

www.ucl.ac.uk

 

[Paddler Ed]

There was a short piece from the Guardian discussing the original tweet that led to the statement:

Let’s put an end to the delusion that Britain abolished slavery | Kenan Malik

The authorities like to play down their role in this obscene trade and claim credit for stopping it

www.theguardian.com

If you want the more in depth one, then this is a good read as well - a confronting good read, but still very good:

When will Britain face up to its crimes against humanity?

The long read: After the abolition of slavery, Britain paid millions in compensation – but every penny of it went to slave owners, and nothing to those they enslaved. We must stop overlooking the brutality of British history

www.theguardian.com

The only good news, and I may get sent on a holiday, is that comments like Chas's are often from a dying generation which only has a (very) finite time left. These outdated and racist views will have even less life when they get called out on it and told to stop sprouting such bullshit (which people here are very good at doing).

 

[Paddler Ed]

And, I'm going to take a break from here - whilst I've often enjoyed some of the posts in the "On this Day" thread, there has been a very strong lurch to the right (wrong?) in them recently, and this is another example of this lurch.

I might be back in few months - I've walked away from 2 other forums in the last 12 months for much the same reasons, and haven't been back on them (and don't miss them).

 

[Shayne]

Aye they cashed in on something that was perfectly normal as far back as history is recorded , I will hazard a guess at 3000 years before Christ .

We all know it was wrong , nobody denies it was wrong , but we cannot judge history by today's standards . We cannot correct it or erase it because it brought us to where we are today and if the world is a better place today its because of history rather than in spite of it .

 

[TonyP]

Whilst the discussion around slavery and the history associated is important it will always polarise the community.

I question what this adds to the Land Cruiser club, and if fact only serves to divide, and adds more admin work for Chris and me.

Sorry to hear you feel like that Ed, you have always contributed massively to this forum. To be honest I have done similar in the past, but now just ignore people so less irritated by them.

I'll remind everyone about the rules/conditions we all signed up to when joining.

 

[Juddian]

There are devious people making careers and money possibly looking to gain unearned power and notoriety by setting groups of people against one another using the tried and trusted method of divide and rule with large helpings of envy hate and perceived injustice thrown in, plus there's always the prospect of free money which never lacks supporters..

A chap i know says this phrase * and it struck deeply within me, now whenever i hear someone pontificating from any side on such arguments, and i especially include politicians in this, i recall these words.

* ''never let rich people tell you who should fear or hate''

Invariably just causes throughout the ages have been hijacked by power hungry or even just crazed lunatics wanting to coerce others to live as they say, the history of socialist/communist movements is littered with the bodies of millions of innocents, no better or worse results than mid 20th century fascist driven ideologies, somehow evil people always rise within these movements whipping easily led people up by constant targetted propaganda.
One would hope we would learn from the past and not repeat it, sadly the similarities to the totalitarian measures being gradually imposed currently in various countries around the world including our own should be disturbing anyone still awake.

 

[Grimbo]

And, I'm going to take a break from here - whilst I've often enjoyed some of the posts in the "On this Day" thread, there has been a very strong lurch to the right (wrong?) in them recently, and this is another example of this lurch.

Who decides what is wrong or not ?

There seems to be a move to try and blank (is it called "cancel" nowadays ? ) anyone who's views are not the same as the current agenda led social views...

To try and neatly pigeon hole a point of view as being either "left" or "right" wing doesn't work because to do so means there has to be a defined centre ... something that is constantly shifting as the mass public view changes ....

The best evenings I've ever spent round a campfire have been spent with those who have deeply held views from both personal and life experience from polar opposite sides of the spectrum..... yet we are all friends and we all respect the right of each other to hold a particular view ....enjoy the debate and listen and dare I say learn and may change our views from such discussion..... we listen, we learn , we discuss , but none of us try and change history or tell others that their point of view is more worthy or important than another's....

It's a shame that Ed feels that he needs to put a metaphorical fingers in his ears rather than listen to others views and try to understand why they are different from his... or even put a balanced counter point ....... life and evenings round the campfire would be bloody boring if we all held the same view......

 

[Dave_S]

we cannot judge history by today's standards

Exactly... in fact I'd go further and say "by today's Western standards".

Many things deemed normal, acceptable behaviour a few centuries, or even a few decades ago, in the West are now unacceptable; likewise much of what is deemed normal in the Middle East and parts of Asia today would be unacceptable in the West.

The World changes and evolves, often for the better, sometimes for the worse, but we can't hold our ancestors accountable to our sensibilities. We can, of course, learn from them.

 

[Juddian]

When you're young you form opinions, often strong ones and good for you if you have opinions formed from your own mind and not just rehashing years of indoctrination via the state education machine.
As you get older you find your opinions can become old fashioned, now at one time the opinions of older people were, like them, listened to and respected even if you disagreed with them.
In the current climate the opinions of the older generation have become vilified from many quarters, sometimes to be dismissed as various isms and ists, we have gone through a sea change of disrespect for the past and the people who in some cases forged the past, but the past is the past, it is what it is and makes us what we are today, if we are wise we learn from it hoping to replicate the best and never to repeat the mistakes.

This is how it should be, but there is one thing those who have strong opinions, which these days tend to detest the thoughts and words from previous generations and make no secret of their hatred, should remember, that in a couple or three decades what went around will come around again and currently right on thoughts and words will be equally derided by the next generation, and so it goes on.

Getting back to slavery, apart from some modern slavers in western lands (generally called human traffickers now though i have a rather different description of them and a better terminal idea of what to do with them),foul specimens that they are, no one currently alive in the western world was anything to do with the foul slavery that went on in those times, they were dark days indeed but it should be remembered that decent men fought and died in struggles and wars to put a stop to slavery.

If you go back far enough you'd find things happened to your own families that were unjust and cruel beyond belief.

What we have to do is make sure this never happens again, personally i think we are on a knife edge of losing our freedoms to a bunch of world owning oligarchs pulling the strings of bought and paid for politicians and media moguls who in turn spread their vision of utopian hell down through a greedy gutless mainstream media.

 

[SteveJB]

Egypt was built by slavery how many blms have trashed the pyramids and every tribe around the world captured people from the other tribes they were at war with and used them as slaves back in history slavery was considered as normal the white slave traders did not round up whole tribes and transport them they used the local dominant tribe to do that for them they bought them in the slave market at port them transported them around the world YES it was wrong but who is to blame in the end the slavers or the people who bought the slave to be put to work as house servants or worked to death in a cotton field
As been said before all we can do is learn from history
Trouble is not everyone has learnt to read

 

[Shayne]

"by today's Western standards"

Ain't that the truth .

A story comes to mind of a friend of mine who witnessed a lynch mob chase a capture someone , confined him by placing car tyres over his head and shoulders , and setting him on fire .

This is 1990's in full view and acceptance of police in the wilds of Africa .............. well Nairobi but well yeah .

Anything is normal if your born and raised to accept it as normal .

My mate was tough , well read and well travelled but there was no doubt in my mind while he recounted some of his experiences that he was shocked to the core and in some way damaged because he was forced to accept these things were normal . Having to choose which kids might survive while handing out food rations .....................

Did he judge - no , he just did what he could when he could and walked away when he couldn't because the alternative was to die .

History won't remember these people , some of them probably owned slaves to . Oskar Schindler was a Nazi , is there a statue of him to pull down ?

 

[chapel gate]

ill bite too.

BLM is a hard left marxist organisation. which should be banned.

paddler eds reaction is typical of narrow minded guardian readers whom spit the dummy out and throw there favorite insult of "racism" around at anyone who dare disagree with there ideology.

utterly pathetic, and unfortunately, utterly predictable in present times.

 

[karl webster]

We are all slaves. It's how its suppose to be for most !

 

[flint]

 

[goodoldboy]

BLM is a hard left marxist organisation. which should be banned.

Fact or opinion ? what Rob posted is verifiable , a matter of record.
I think we would all benefit if folks could be clear about what is fact & what their opinions are. provocation and insults shouldn't have any place in a rational debate.

Judging the past by modern , more enlightened standards is why we now view slavery , sending kids down the pit & a whole host of other behaviours that were normal in the past as unacceptable.Those who profited from this brutality ,politicians , churchmen and intellectuals were the ones who condoned these kinds of brutality. Far from wanting to cancel opinions what the more progressive voices in society want is a debate about the past not silence and the myths of a glorious empire that are currently served up as history.
As for statues Colston wasn't a "so called slaver" he was someone who amassed immense wealth through brutality and human suffering and a statue of such a figure belongs in a museum where the full context of it's past can be explained.
The hostility of the present government towards BLM , it's jingoistic flag waving & proposals to criminalise those who vandalise statues or protest to vigorously seems to say that they are at least happy with the status quo & against any scrutiny of the past that doesn't fit in with their world view.The labour party as well has questions to answer about it's policies towards the former colonies in the post war period not to mention Tony Blair's part in pointless and illegal wars.

Egypt was built by slavery

not according to this
Our understanding of the past is constantly changing as new discoveries & reassessment of existing evidence brings a different perspective .Openly condemning past behaviour can make life difficult for the politicians when it comes to their dealings with China or Saudi Arabia.