was breakdown now LPG in UK

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Hi John,
Good to see someone else here likes spark plugs!
Sorry I can't help with your problem, but I'd value your opinion on any
performance differences on petrol vs LPG (when it's running OK!)
I've an old 60 series 3F and I'd decided my next cruiser was going to be an
LPG 24 valve 80 series.
My many queries would be what sort of performance you get vs economy and
what sort of range can you get while retaining the original petrol tank?
It's all very well getting 28 - 30 mpg equivalent, but if I had to stop
every 100 miles, that would be annoying.
I love the UK FZJ80, makes a Range Rover look stupid, IMO, but I'd need to
get half sensible fuel figures to justify one.
Regards,
Neill Watson
On 21/8/06 5:29 am, "Peter Browning" wrote:
 
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Hi Neill
I think you need to direct that to Pete.
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
 
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Hi Neil
Another petrolhead! I was beginning to feel like a leper here!! ;-)
Very briefly as I'm up to my neck in work.
Performance: On LPG it is noticeably less powerful and "nippy" cf. running
on petrol. However, because there is such a surplus of available power
anyway it makes little real difference, you just have to depress the
throttle a little more.
Range: I have a nominal 90L LPG tank giving a real capacity of 72L (approx
15.5 gallons). I return between 10 and 15mpg depending on how hard I drive
and whether the A/C is on or off. So LPG range is between 150 and 232 miles
at about =A31.77 / gallon (ex VAT). The main problem is that LPG "fuel gauges"
are notoriously inaccurate so I always find myself wanting to fill up
between 100 and 150 miles purely because I get nervous about running out.
Biggest bugbear is losing half the boot for a ruddy great LPG tank!
I would go diesel next time for sure.
Peter
 
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On 21/8/06 12:56 pm, "Peter Browning" wrote:
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Thanks, Peter.
I've seen installations under the floor, running parallel to the propshaft,
I believe 80 litres. One thing I've noticed are the later generation
multi-point injection systems that apparently are more efficient, but more
expensive.
A pal of mine who works on motor racing engine management full time is of
the opinion that a correctly optimised fuel map would cancel out any power
loss.
I know that LPG is very popular down under. I guess I'll have to do some
more investigation in October, which is when I'm planning to buy.
Thanks for the opinion.
Neill W
 
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Yes you can get underfloor tanks of course but for me they compromise the
off-road clearance so I didn't consider them. There is also a fair chunk of
space under the boot that normally houses the spare wheel; get a rear spare
carrier and bung the LPG tank in the space freed up. Again that wouldn't
work for me for the same reason of ground clearance.
Mine is a single point injection and yes, I do understand the multipoints
are better, but quite a bit more expensive (last time I looked anyway).
If you can get hold of a map that cancels out the power loss without
compromising longevity or engine stress I'd be interested.
Pete
Thanks, Peter.
I've seen installations under the floor, running parallel to the propshaft,
I believe 80 litres. One thing I've noticed are the later generation
multi-point injection systems that apparently are more efficient, but more
expensive.
A pal of mine who works on motor racing engine management full time is of
the opinion that a correctly optimised fuel map would cancel out any power
loss.
I know that LPG is very popular down under. I guess I'll have to do some
more investigation in October, which is when I'm planning to buy.
Thanks for the opinion.
Neill W

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I believe he was saying that he could write a map on a rolling road for one,
but only the newer multi-point systems.
He reckoned he could use any popular 6 cylinder ECU and map it to suit the
characteristics of LPG. The Toyota ECU, I believe, is heavily encrypted and
difficult to work with. His theory was that taken to the nth degree, it
might theoretically be even better - something to do with the calorific
value or something. At that point my eyes glazed over......
Best regards,
Neill W
On 21/8/06 3:20 pm, "Peter Browning" wrote:
 
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Neill Watson wrote:
Hi Neill,
I've had an LPG conversion on my 80 series for about 3 years now. I
initially wanted an auto cruiser and I know that they stopped importing
the auto diesel quite a few years before and didn't want to buy an "M"
reg car at the time. I bought the petrol with the intention of
converting it to LPG and did so about a year after getting it. My tanks
are located where the spare wheel normally sits so I had to wait to get
a spare carrier first. (Kaymar unit as it meant I didn't need to drill
any holes in the rear wings - and bought direct interestingly enough -
cheaper than buying from the European distributor!)
I have two tanks located directly behind the rear axle going across the
vehicle. The first don't come any lower than the axle casing and the
second, mounted to the rear of the first, is smaller to keep a semblance
of departure angle. The conversion specialist mounted the two tanks into
a steel frame which was then plated with checkerplate underneath to
protect them further. In total they give 120 litres which as Peter said,
will realistically drop. If I fill them after having run them dry I can
get around 85 litres in.
The system installed was the air/LPG mix and cost around ?1800 for all
the tanks, fittings etc. At the time I was offered the direct injection
system which would have cost another ?900 and I couldn't afford. In
hindsight I wish I had gone down that road as the power output of the
vehicle between petrol and LPG is noticeable.
I still have the petrol tank fitted and do run a tank through every so
often, although the vehicle starts on petrol to clean the injectors it
switches over as the revs drop the first time (if you want to run on LPG
of course). Like Peter I also get the same problem with running on
petrol. The vehicle runs fine on LPG but if I switch over it sounds and
feels rough, particularly at idle. I've never fully investigated because
I suspect it may be something to do with the lambda sensor and the way
in which that affects the "brains" control over the injection system.
Toyota don't recommend running the vehicle on LPG so maybe that has
something to do with it. If I do run a complete tank through the system
and have a balance of driving conditions the system does settle down
about half way through my pocket the tank.
Problems:
The LPG that we get here in the UK has been cast-off from the Dutch (or
so I'm led to believe). I have towed a caravan through France and as
soon as you fill up with French LPG, or Belgian, or Dutch, the vehicle
runs better and has more power. Apparently they add something to the gas
that takes the calorific value up. I can drive solo back in England and
get back up a reasonably long dual-carriageway hill with an awful lot
more ease - and speed - when I've got French gas on board 9Probably
something to do with the garlic!)
I'm not an expert, but the "bit" that mixes the LPG with the air is
located on my vehicle just behind the radiator header tank on the left.
I have wanted to fit a second battery tray to the vehicle and the
location of this particular part makes it nigh on impossible.
Apart from the two other problems above I would probably go with Peter
and say that I would go for a diesel next time. The problem is that I
still want an auto box so the only other solution is a 100 series - and
I just can't bring myself to think of taking it down thin green lanes so
I'll stick with the LPG. Adding Black Widow drawers to the rear of the
vehicle has increased the weight that gets carried around somewhat so
maybe I should just get used to the fact that it will never be as fast
as with petrol. on the other hand I need to get a tuning specialist to
have a look and see what they can find - the trouble is that he needs to
have knowledge of both petrol and LPG systems and will probably have to
find a compromise.
If you are worried about ground clearance then you can always raise the
vehicle. I used an Australian make that was fitted by a garage further
north than Kent and have had no problems but I'd rather not open that
can of worms again.
David
1998 80 series auto, 1FZ-FE, 50mm OME lift, LPG.
 
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Thanks for taking the time for such a complete comment, David.
It seems there are issues around performance drop off that I would need to
study. It would irritate the s**t out of me if every time I flicked a
switch, the performance dropped off. I'd like to try one of the latest multi
point systems to see if they are better.
Regarding the auto box, did they make the 24v diesel with an auto shift in
Japan after '94? If not, 100 series are coming down in price now. As for the
green lanes, it'll be OK - just back it right up and take a run at it :)
Can't say I was too impressed with the active dampers on the 100 though. I
would probably go for an early, non-active car if I was in that market.
Best regards,
Neill W
On 21/8/06 7:08 pm, "David Roulson" wrote:
 
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Hi Neill,
In '95 when they brought out the 24 valve diesel they only brought it into
Europe in manual form due to some emmissions issues. It was however
available elsewhere (including Japan and Aus) in the world with an Auto box
and you will see a number of these around as imports in the UK.
The down sides to the Jap Imports are that they generally don't have the
factory front and rear diff locks and I have yet to come across an example
with the 3rd row of seats.
If you are willing to import your own you should be able to locate one with
the diff locks and might even be able to find one with a factory winch which
can save you some money (a couple of thousand) fitting after market products
to an already imported model.
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Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Skype: julianvoelcker
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
 
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Neill Watson wrote:
I agree. I have been told that the direct injection method does keep the
same bhp - roughly. However, I think that they drill a new injection
port into the cylinder head so if you ever have to replace one you'd
have to get the new head drilled as well.
I did enquire at one point in getting the conversion done but it was
still expensive even though I'd already got the tanks.
If we ever get the same LPG as the continent then I would be happy to
stay with LPG but somehow I can't see that happening. A little
unfortunate as the government are so into environmental issues and LPG
is probably the cleanest of the fuels found on most forecourts.
Julian's answer regarding the auto box was an awful lot informed than mine.
You could be right about the 100 series. Unfortunately I've bought a
number of bits for the 80 over the last year that won't fit the 100 so I
may have to live with it for the moment. I would have to be careful not
to take too big a run - I could end up with a Rav 4!!
I'd have to take your word for that Neill, I've never driven one (not
such a bad thing as I'd probably want one and start to find more faults
with the 80)!
Best Regards
David
1998 80 series auto, 1FZ-FE, 50mm OME lift, LPG.
 
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