welder

[Jon Wildsmith]

TIG gives you a lot more control of the weld but in return it takes a lot more skill to do well, with each hand and a foot doing different things at the same time and each mistake usually meaning a visit to the grinder to sharpen your tungsten before you can start again it can get a bit tedious. The main problem with using a MIG for aluminium is that the wire is very soft and a normal MIG machine pushes the wire up the liner to the handset so the tiniest resistance with aluminium wire even with a teflon liner causes a right tangled mess at the wire feed rollers. You can MIG aluminium with a spool gun though (and a bottle of Argon) and with a little practice get pretty good results a lot faster than with TIG.

 

[warrenpfo]

So not to create another "Which welder" thread i thought it best to revive this one.

From the reading I have done it would seem transformer welders have less to go wrong, are bigger in form and heavier but in principle last longer than inverter welders which are smaller, lighter. You can get a mig welder that does Tig and Arc if you want but not sure if its a case of jack of all and master of none or if they do Mig better than they Tig or Arc like this http://www.migatronic.com/product finder/machines/process/mig-mag/rallymig for about £700 ~(not sure of brand/spares/service/support and am sure there are others out there)

Can you get a Tig that does both Mig and Arc?

I ask as my father has a 180amp old style Arc welder back in SA that i would be able to use if needed but given my continued interest and desire to have a welder as I would like to be able to make brackets, repair thinks and generally feel it would be a great bit of kit to have in ones arsenal as a DIY mechanic and man.

I have not yes decided on a brand or machine but given i have a few odd jobs that i have had priced up and its a case of £40 here and £70 there I feel a welder would pay for its self over the course of its life quite quickly.

Ben you might have a strong opinion seen as you are currently in the trade but wanted to ask the opinion of others on these combi type welders.

 

[stumog]

thats does look like a nice welder warren.
my main reason for wanting a tig welder is for nice welds on aluminium BUT you need a tig that is ac/dc which this one doesnt state that it will do you you might be limited in only doing steel and stainless with it which you can do both with a mig which is alot easier and faster maybe not so neat but with practice you will get it.

I have always used the older type migs and have a 180a cebora welds lovely. i did a job fopr somebody with there kempi new type 160a and was blown away buy how nice and easy it is to use.

personly i would just get a mig and learn then when you are happy get a ac/dc arc and tig welder as well. most stuff i think you would end up doing is fine with a mig. ali is not to bad to weld with mig as long as you go fast enough if you see jons post abouve he mentions the wire clagging up, i found i stopped this by welding really really fast.

stu

 

[warrenpfo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKEC7z63kJY&list=PLjT748Q3m5ZT_Hbc0AqKcuBu_DV1r7vx7

This indicates you can do Aluminium with it but not Tig i think

 

[stumog]

sorry warren i cant watch youtube stuff on my work computer. you could do the ali with the mig side of the welder like any other mig but its very hard. not that its easy with tig but you get alot better finish with tig and more control.

imo ali welding with a mig welder is only for thick ish metal say 4mm-5mm up.

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

Looks like a nice welder and yes I think aluminium is MIG only on that. For what you've said I would pick a welder based on how good it is for MIG and treat anything else as a bonus you'll probably never use anyway ... Unless it's an ambition to weld aluminium like a pro I'd leave the odd aluminium job to them and be happy gluing bits of steel together with MIG which makes all sorts of projects possible

 

[Chas]

Any idea of the price of those Migatronic welders Warren?

 

[Chris]

Deff won't do ally TIG. It clearly says so.



Personally, I'd buy a MIG designed for MIG. But I'd also buy a MMA as well. But now, I'd buy an inverter MMA. They do look pretty handy. Ben, weren't you tempted by an inverter stick at some point? Tiny and lightweight but pack a bigger punch than the old buzz boxes we're used to.

http://www.weldequip.com/parweld-xti160.htm for example.

I'm not convinced about that one in the vid. Fine for fixing bits and bobs. But doesn't come with a Euro torch and I wonder what spares it uses. I'd want to know a heck of a lot more. Personally, I'd buy one from a welding supplier too, locally. If not then I'd go for a branded one that is well supported.

 

[Dan W]

Would you guys recommend finding a welding course to go on or just keep practising? As I don't really know much about the technicalities of it. For instance learnt this week, much to my despair, that if you touch cast iron with a mig welder you create Adamantium.

 

[warrenpfo]

I have been watching lots of youtube and there seems to be a wealth of good videos to learn from

 

[Ben]

Warren I agree with what Stu, John and Chris have said.

ARC welders are OK (built most of the accessories on my truck with one) but its not as easy to use as MIG and no where near as neat. Its also no good for thin stuff like body work, for that you really need a MIG.

The inverter machines are awesome (yes Chris I was looking at getting one and will at some point), but if I had to choose one welder it would be a descent MIG and for what you will be doing Warren thats what I would recommend.

Now TIG is what I'm currently learning and after lots and lots of hours of tuition I'm only just really getting the hang of it! Its an art form and much much harder than other types of welding. That said I do love it and for a lot of welding jobs I dont think you can beat it. Its so neat with no sparks or spatter and creates beautiful welds on almost any metal!

I think you would like TIG Chris, it would compliment some of the beautiful things you've created on the lathe and miller!

 

[stumog]

Tig is soooooo hard to do i could tell you how to do it no worries but when it comes into practice i just suck at tig. i dont think my hands are steady enough for it and i have done loads of mig.

 

[warrenpfo]

OK so Mig it is.

To weld 5mm plate will a 210amp machine cope with one pass?

 

[Ben]

Yes should be fine Warren.

To get strong, descent welds in 5mm you should really be preparing the joint first by running the grinder along the edge to bevel it to ensure good root penetration.

Tig is soooooo hard to do i could tell you how to do it no worries but when it comes into practice i just suck at tig. i dont think my hands are steady enough for it and i have done loads of mig.

It is bloody hard and for the last 5 months I've been struggling to get the hang of it, then yesterday night something just clicked and I got it and was managing to produce almost perfect welds, such an amazing feeling after so many frustrating days and nights practicing!

 

[Doodle]

Yes, plenty of power. Bear in mind a 210A machine will probably need a specific power supply though - 13A isn't going to be sufficient to support full power usage.

 

[stumog]

you shouldny really go above 180a on a 13a 240v supply really. 210a is a bit ott for home use. i have welded 10mm steel with a 180a no worries like ben said just grind the edges.

have you tied ali yet Ben? thats really funny you will think you have not touched a welder before when you first have a go!!

 

[Doodle]

To be honest, even the 150s seem to want a 16A supply, although I expect there's some leeway.

 

[stumog]

the 13a plugs do work but get a bit warm!! i just give them a cool off with a liitle water and off welding again.

 

[Chris]

Ben, I will give TIG a go at some stage. I'd love to be able to even tack ally!

Warren, it's never quites a simple as 'will this weld that'. As I am sure you'd guess. Welding 10mm plate for example - depends on more than just it not coming apart. In some applications, running a 2.3mm rod down either side could well be enough. But I wouldn't want you making the hull of a destroyer like that! But gouging in with 4mm rod and 400 amps will bend it like a banana. Distortion is a real issue when you start going hotter and deeper.

Typical home use stuff like we do, 180 amps is generally enough. OK if I had my time again, I might go to 200 amps. But only if it was a clever integrated circuit machine with inverter stuff going on to allow it to run on single phase.

I have a basic consumer DB in the garage but the welder runs from a proper blue three pin plug into a dedicated slow blow breaker. It's not the amperage rating of the breaker that matters it's the response to start up arc. You can put a 32 amp breaker in there and it can still blow when you spark up. It's the spike as everything fires up. Get a motor rated breaker.

Good branded MIG with 180 amp and a proper wiring job will see you right for years. Proper gas too. Don't scrimp on consumables and try to get years out of one shroud either. And most importantly of all the other equally most important things, don't by a cheap shit helmet. The lens is all important. £49 units are great for the money. I have one, but switch to something say £140 and you'll see what you've been missing. And as I have learned, if you wear glasses for close up work, don't forget to put them on when welding. Doh.

Find a local welding supplies place. You can get your PPE, wire, gas, advice and abrasives from them too. I have an account just a mile up the road and drop in when passing and pick up what ever is about. You'll get samples of this and that too if you want to try something like anti spatter, discs and the odd bit of kit.

 

[Gary820]

I use a 180a sealey pro mig, had it a few years now and it does everything I ask of it. It'll happily weld 5 mm and as Ben says prep is the key.
I use 0.8 mm wire for anything other then panels.
Have used stainless wire before too and it worked well enough.
I get stuff like tips, wire and shrouds from a seller on e bay and my gas comes from a local supplier, I own the bottle and they refill it for me (cash job)

Definitely agree about don't scrimp on consumables, helmet too. The auto ones are great and not always silly money, I got mine through work and it cost them a few quid lol (long story)

Never had any official training, got shown as an apprentice then given some sills to weld on! I'd say 90% is self taught and practice.