are these worth considering for a beginner?
http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/lidl_uk/hs.xsl/index_31293.htm
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welder
- Thread starter SpinDrift
- Start date
Honestly? Not really. It will only do up to 3mm. Which probably mean 2.5. You can do double pass, vee roots, weld both sides etc but in truth you could do it al in one with a bigger set. Stick is not the best for what we want to do on vehicles, but learning on a stick is, in my view, no bad thing. You can get a better set from Machine Mart on a VAT free day. Most of these small welders will work from a 13 amp three pin plug. Bigger then 115 amp and you'll need to go to an industrial blue plug and a slower breaker. You can get inverter MMA sets which go higher on a std plug. I am looking at one of those. There is one I looked at today which would easily fit into your expedition equipment. Just add electricity.
Buy and play with it if you like. But I think it's not really a sensible choice. The earth clamp will be rubbish. The electrode holder will be pants and the face shield will have you screaming.
if someone were really serious about learning to weld and weld well like some on here can do making bumpers and the like, I would be looking at a MIG with a budget or around £500 and a 200 amp machine. Maybe 180 like mine. Proper bottled gas too.
But you can do everything from a car battery set to a CAD aided super welder. The beauty of experience is that when you've been there and done that you can help people out who are treading the same path. If you get one, find some decent steel sheet. At least 3mm thick to practice on.
Some good welding forums and tutorials out there.
Chris
Buy and play with it if you like. But I think it's not really a sensible choice. The earth clamp will be rubbish. The electrode holder will be pants and the face shield will have you screaming.
if someone were really serious about learning to weld and weld well like some on here can do making bumpers and the like, I would be looking at a MIG with a budget or around £500 and a 200 amp machine. Maybe 180 like mine. Proper bottled gas too.
But you can do everything from a car battery set to a CAD aided super welder. The beauty of experience is that when you've been there and done that you can help people out who are treading the same path. If you get one, find some decent steel sheet. At least 3mm thick to practice on.
Some good welding forums and tutorials out there.
Chris
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my welder is a 160AMP ARC which i bought from screw fix for about £120, about 5 years ago.
with it ive built bumpers, winch tray, rock sliders and loads of other bits and pieces.
a decent ARC welder is ok for making most bits and pieces, but is no good for thin stuff like body work.
ARC welding is a lot harder than MIG welding, but it is a lot cheaper as you dont have to pay rent on a gas bottle. (ok you can get the tiny disposable gas bottles but i cant see them lasting very long).
i think it all comes down to what you want to use it for and how much you want to pay. if its something that your not going to use very often, and you dont intend on welding thin sheet metal, then an ARC will be perfect. but if youve not done much welding before dont expect perfect results straight away.
ive got access to both MIG and ARC and depending on what im doing, dictates what i use.
ive been MIG welding at work the last few days, until it packed up today, which is when the trusty petrol powered ARC welder came out!
with it ive built bumpers, winch tray, rock sliders and loads of other bits and pieces.
a decent ARC welder is ok for making most bits and pieces, but is no good for thin stuff like body work.
ARC welding is a lot harder than MIG welding, but it is a lot cheaper as you dont have to pay rent on a gas bottle. (ok you can get the tiny disposable gas bottles but i cant see them lasting very long).
i think it all comes down to what you want to use it for and how much you want to pay. if its something that your not going to use very often, and you dont intend on welding thin sheet metal, then an ARC will be perfect. but if youve not done much welding before dont expect perfect results straight away.
ive got access to both MIG and ARC and depending on what im doing, dictates what i use.
ive been MIG welding at work the last few days, until it packed up today, which is when the trusty petrol powered ARC welder came out!
I wouldn't argue with any of what Ben said. But the question really revolved around - I can't weld, I'd like to learn, should I buy this?
Answer from me is still the same. No. The cheaper and less powered the machine whether MIG, TIG, STIG or FRIG the harder it is to learn. I know very good welders who struggle to get a bead from a Clarke gas-less set. And people wonder why they struggle to learn on one.
Ben, clearly you can weld. Stick is a time honoured way of making warships, tanks and even bumpers. But I doubt you learned on an Aldi set. Get something half decent and you'll either love it and keep it and if you don't it will sell just as easily.
Smaller sets with low power say they are good for 1.6 and 2.3 mm rods. 1.6mm rods are an absolute barsteward to weld with. And if you only have 80 amps max, getting good penetration with 2.3 might even be a struggle. I learned on a 115 amp Clarke machine which was £58. I would describe that as pretty much entry level into the sport. I'd love a 160 amp MMA set. Mmmm 4mm rods. Nice.
Chris
Answer from me is still the same. No. The cheaper and less powered the machine whether MIG, TIG, STIG or FRIG the harder it is to learn. I know very good welders who struggle to get a bead from a Clarke gas-less set. And people wonder why they struggle to learn on one.
Ben, clearly you can weld. Stick is a time honoured way of making warships, tanks and even bumpers. But I doubt you learned on an Aldi set. Get something half decent and you'll either love it and keep it and if you don't it will sell just as easily.
Smaller sets with low power say they are good for 1.6 and 2.3 mm rods. 1.6mm rods are an absolute barsteward to weld with. And if you only have 80 amps max, getting good penetration with 2.3 might even be a struggle. I learned on a 115 amp Clarke machine which was £58. I would describe that as pretty much entry level into the sport. I'd love a 160 amp MMA set. Mmmm 4mm rods. Nice.
Chris
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If gas-less was any good, Warren, we'd all be doing it. And we're not.
The idea of a weld is to melt the parent metal using an arc -OK? When the edges melt together there would be a thinning of the metal to fill the joint. So the electrode melts too as a filler to provide new metal. To stop impurities from forming in the weld when it freezes there are all sorts of tricks going on to exclude oxygen and to make slag float on the top of the pool blah blah. In stick welding, all the magic is wrapped around the stick and when the weld is finished, you tap it with a hammer and all the volcanic looking slag chips off leaving a shiny weld. When you weld with a MIG you use an inert gas like argon to shroud the electrode. Lovely - no slag to chip off. When you MIG with gas-less (technically not really MIG then as it stands for Metal Inert Gas) the flux and shroud come from part of the MIG wire. So really, being very basic about it, gas-less MIG welding is more like continuous stick welding.
It's crap.
Chris
The idea of a weld is to melt the parent metal using an arc -OK? When the edges melt together there would be a thinning of the metal to fill the joint. So the electrode melts too as a filler to provide new metal. To stop impurities from forming in the weld when it freezes there are all sorts of tricks going on to exclude oxygen and to make slag float on the top of the pool blah blah. In stick welding, all the magic is wrapped around the stick and when the weld is finished, you tap it with a hammer and all the volcanic looking slag chips off leaving a shiny weld. When you weld with a MIG you use an inert gas like argon to shroud the electrode. Lovely - no slag to chip off. When you MIG with gas-less (technically not really MIG then as it stands for Metal Inert Gas) the flux and shroud come from part of the MIG wire. So really, being very basic about it, gas-less MIG welding is more like continuous stick welding.
It's crap.
Chris
I hate to be picky but,
If we're talking "gas-less" flux cored wire as used by little DIY welders like the miserable little Sip piece of crap then yes "gas-less" is useless.
BUT
There's an awful lot of Lloyds approved industrial welding being done with Flux-cored wire on a daily basis. You don't know the meaning of heat until you've welded with it too
400A and no gas cooling means at least 2 gloves if you want to get very far
Welding is one of those jobs that you can't just "dip a toe in"
Cheap welders are spiteful pieces of crap whereas £700 worth of Esab Caddy mig 160 (for example) will make a 1st timer look good even on gas-less wire...........
As for gas, forget disposables. there are loads of cheap deals to be had with proper bottles.
Hobby-weld and someone else do a half decent deal, but there are better to be had. BOC possibly still do the Volkzone deal (google it)
If we're talking "gas-less" flux cored wire as used by little DIY welders like the miserable little Sip piece of crap then yes "gas-less" is useless.
BUT
There's an awful lot of Lloyds approved industrial welding being done with Flux-cored wire on a daily basis. You don't know the meaning of heat until you've welded with it too
400A and no gas cooling means at least 2 gloves if you want to get very far
Welding is one of those jobs that you can't just "dip a toe in"
Cheap welders are spiteful pieces of crap whereas £700 worth of Esab Caddy mig 160 (for example) will make a 1st timer look good even on gas-less wire...........
As for gas, forget disposables. there are loads of cheap deals to be had with proper bottles.
Hobby-weld and someone else do a half decent deal, but there are better to be had. BOC possibly still do the Volkzone deal (google it)
ignat
Well-Known Member
I managed to pick up a 115A stick welder off ebay for £20. I remember there being loads of them going for cheap. It came with a crap helmet, variety of rods etc.
I 'learnt' to weld with it just by reading online and watching youtube, and practising on scrap.
I made three things with it:
Load Guard:
Beefed up bash plates:
and a triple jerry can holder:
So for small projects like this it worked nicely! If you are planning on making bumpers/sliders or getting into it properly then seriously consider a MIG. I dont think my skills are up to bumpers, so when I get a chance I'll get an arc welder again, just for these small jobs. Unless I win the lottery then I'll get a MIG and start learning properly
I 'learnt' to weld with it just by reading online and watching youtube, and practising on scrap.
I made three things with it:
Load Guard:
Beefed up bash plates:
and a triple jerry can holder:
So for small projects like this it worked nicely! If you are planning on making bumpers/sliders or getting into it properly then seriously consider a MIG. I dont think my skills are up to bumpers, so when I get a chance I'll get an arc welder again, just for these small jobs. Unless I win the lottery then I'll get a MIG and start learning properly
You could always look for a decent machine second hand. My 'big' Clarke welder came off eBay, second hand, someone had got bored with it. I also have a Clarke 'hobby' size 150 ish machine designed for use with either the flux cored wire or the disposable bottles. Never used it with flux cored wire I just bought an adapter to use proper size bottles with it. I've used it for quite a few different things, mainly small stuff but some 6mm joints occasionally and it's a pretty nice smooth little machine and I don't think they're mega bucks. It's more than good enough for knocking up storage units and load guards etc and can do the bigger stuff if you know what you're doing.
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if anyone decides to get an ARC welder some of the new inverter welders are amazing, especially compared to the normal ARC welders like i use.
they ARC up instantly and theres never any need to scratch the rods on the work piece a few times to get the rod warmed up.
there a huge improvement on normal ARC welders, and the quality of the welds is a lot better, whenever ive used them the slag peals off after youve welded.
there a lot easier to weld with, and the machine it self is usually quite small compared to normal machines.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ARC-WELDER-MM ... 2199wt_698
they ARC up instantly and theres never any need to scratch the rods on the work piece a few times to get the rod warmed up.
there a huge improvement on normal ARC welders, and the quality of the welds is a lot better, whenever ive used them the slag peals off after youve welded.
there a lot easier to weld with, and the machine it self is usually quite small compared to normal machines.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ARC-WELDER-MM ... 2199wt_698
That is a very cheap welder. I fancy a bash at that but do hear stories about the no brand cheapies. They are pretty much disposable. One they break, you bin them. Better branded ones actually have parts available. But do cost twice as much. I reckon for a long trip, sticking one of those in the truck with a range of plugs would be a good idea. They are very small and light.
Chris
Chris
Reinhard, look what popped up on the MIG welding forum. All your questions answered I think. Incidentally a very good forum for tutorials and help.
On the subject of the other welder mentioned -
Good service from the on line shop there too. Nice little inverter set on there. More money that e-bay's version or where ever, but you can get parts instead of throwing it away WHEN it breaks.
Chris
http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/show ... hp?t=33479
On the subject of the other welder mentioned -
Good service from the on line shop there too. Nice little inverter set on there. More money that e-bay's version or where ever, but you can get parts instead of throwing it away WHEN it breaks.
Chris
http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/show ... hp?t=33479
Do you think a link would help Chris?
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you can use a MIG but you will need the correct wire and gas.
AFAIK TIG is better for aluminium.
You can get inverter welders that do both ARC and TIG.
ive never tried welding aluminium, but ive heard its harder than welding steel.
AFAIK TIG is better for aluminium.
You can get inverter welders that do both ARC and TIG.
ive never tried welding aluminium, but ive heard its harder than welding steel.
TIG is the way for aluminium, but it must be AC. You can get cheaper (very good) TIG sets for steel but they are DC only. You have to get either a dual set AC/DC or AC only - if there is such a thing. I haven't tried TIG yet, but it's more like electric brazing than welding. It's not beginner stuff.
Chris
Chris
