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WTF Covid.

Reported Covid deaths in the UK are seriously exaggerated because if someone is dead when paramedics arrive it is safest to assume they are infected even if its really quite obvious a heart attack took them so i'm hearing from families of the deceased , 4 times now .
That's an interesting anecdote but can you point us to some links to back up your theory ?
according to official figures 93.4 % of Covid deaths were recorded in Hospitals , Care homes or Hospice .
 
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why would official sources exaggerate Covid deaths ? Spain has seen under reporting.
 
Real life mate the first one lived at the end of this street she had been succesfully treated for cancer and her son was all set to bring her home until he got a call at 6am saying she has maybe an hour - no mention of covid during all the daily visits leading up to that date .

Helen will bury her sister and her aunt next week and that won't make the news either , niether death comes as a surprize but she fully expects covid to take the blame though it hasn't been mentioned yet .

The rights or wrongs of it really don't matter when dealing emotionally with the loss but personally i believe it simplifies paperwork at the source . Death is a legal matter and i would suppose an "infectious disease" stamp significantly reduces the onus to follow set protocol while at the same time supporting calls for more funding .

New York didn't just skip paperwork they dug mass graves as well , when needs must and resources are short the living take priority over the dead .
 
Totally agree shayne. We lost our nan recently and guess what. Porkies on the death certificate. Made me look into it all deeper. It isn't what it's made out to be. ONS numbers less deaths last year than previous years.

I've backed out from looking at it now. My family has NO fear of living. Keep smiling and look forward. I'll be happy when I have very little to do with society.
 
The mrs just popped in to refresh my memory , girl she works with son in laws mother and father were diagnosed with covid but 2 weeks of quarantine both felt fine and went back to their usual routine .
Hubby had a bad heart and at the end of the third week not an hour after saying he felt great he collapsed and died of a heart attack . She was obviously devastated so her sister moved in with her temporary just for company and unfortunately fell fatally down the stairs . Both officially died of covid .

This was December and while she accepted her husbands cause of death her sister has not yet been buried because you don't need a medical degree to know the difference between a broken neck and covid .

Real life huh you couldn't make it up .
 
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Its sad Karl but its no conspiracy no central body is deliberately telling lies not even the media for once , I reckon its just a case of write covid so you can get back to work and there's no denying somebody needs their help to survive , I'm sure you wouldn't want medics sat in a room filling out forms instead . Its an uncomfortable truth that won't sit well but i hope you can come to think the error on your Nan's certificate gave someone else a second chance .
 
We all have our views shayne.

If it wasnt for my mum I'd have got it taken off.

That's the past though now.
 
My mum asphyxiated and it had almost nothing to do with his hands around her neck because he was a Freemason they would have us believe . It is what it is and so it will remain because i can't undo the important bit .
 
I’m amazed folk discredit information from governments and mainstream media, but take what random folk post on social media e.g. Facebook as gospel....
all part of the conspiracy theory BS.
i know/know of a few people who believe this shite. i get regular messages off them with links to you tube vids. "you gotta watch this! this is what ive been telling you about!"

yawn..

trying to keep an open mind i watch them though. then, as ever, after wasting an hour of my life, i always come to the same conclusion;
people actually believe this crap?

some points in this article actually describe them pretty well;

2. Conspiracy theory believers have common traits.
While conspiracy theory believers are often trying to satisfy unmet psychological needs, they share other common traits. Douglas' research suggests that narcissists and people who yearn to feel unique tend to adopt conspiracy theories. She says that seeking information others do not possess helps them feel superior to others.

"Perhaps conspiracy theories allow people to feel that they are in possession of rare, important information that other people do not have, making them feel special and thus boosting their self‐esteem," Douglas wrote in the 2019 article.

The research Douglas and her co-authors described in that paper indicates that people who experience anxiety, have difficulty distinguishing fact from fiction, feel powerless and alienated from politics, hold prejudices toward certain groups, adopt a quasi-religious mentality, and engage in "non-clinical delusional thinking" may be more prone to conspiracy theorizing.

Political views matter as well. People at both extremes of the political spectrum tend to believe in conspiracy theories more, says Douglas. The association between ideology and conspiracy theory beliefs isn't clear yet, but it might be linked to people's need to feel positively about the groups to which they belong, including political parties. An unproven theory that casts one group as malevolently threatened by its opposition could strengthen that group's sense of identity and belonging.

"Perhaps conspiracy theories allow people to feel that they are in possession of rare, important information that other people do not have"
Douglas says it's important for people to know that their "political biases might influence how they process certain types of information."

While scientific research has found associations between conspiracy beliefs and certain personality traits, it's still unclear whether those links are causal. The connection between anxiousness and conspiracy theorizing, for example, might happen because anxiety makes people more vulnerable to those beliefs, or because people become more anxious as they learn about and endorse those ideas.

Shauna Bowes, a fourth-year graduate student researcher in clinical psychology at Emory University, conducted a study that tried to better understand individual personality traits associated with conspiracy beliefs. The results, published recently in the Journal of Personality, echoed previous findings that narcissism, poor critical thinking skills, intellectual certainty, reduced inquisitiveness, and anxiety and depression, among other factors, all play a role. Intellectual humility was negatively associated with adopting conspiracy theories, suggesting that modesty and reflection are an advantage.

Bowes says that if more people "pump the brakes" as they assess their beliefs, pausing to see if they include one or more conspiracy theories, it would help make them less vulnerable to those views.

"Changing beliefs is notoriously hard," says Bowes. "[G]etting people to revise their opinions is challenging because we hold our beliefs to certainty. We have a lot of work to do to figure out how to inoculate against [conspiracy] beliefs."

While you can't change strong personality traits or political affiliations overnight, you can improve your ability to cope with uncertainty. Feeling more confident when life is unpredictable may help protect you from the influence of conspiracy theories. That means you're less eager to improve your self-esteem by adopting a specific belief in order to feel special or superior to others.

If you struggle with uncertainty, find ways to enhance existing coping skills or learn new ones. This could mean strengthening ties with family or friends to feel more connected to others, practicing mindfulness to deal with anxiety, cultivating moments of joy to reduce stress, volunteering to give yourself an improved sense of purpose, or seeking therapy to manage your worries.

"With the pandemic and the economic calamity we face, everybody is stressed out, and everybody is super vulnerable, if not to QAnon, then to something else," says Hassan.



anyway, im off to join the flat earth society..
 
Yup, Trump was straight on closing orders, as such the mass hysterical reaction due to Trump derangement syndrome meant that could never happen here.

Amazing thing Covid, its killed off flu completely, no that's me being a trifle sarky.

My gut feeling is that those in power, and i don't mean our thoroughly incompetent govt who would struggle to run the proverbial piss up, are using the present flu epidemic to bring about massive changes to everything we've ever known and loved about our civilised western way of life, this isn't due to Covid as such, it just happens to be the convenient vehicle that came about at the time and they brought forward their plans.
The desperate need to get rid of Trump, using whatever means possible may have had some bearing on the urgency of the timing of this, had Trump not been denied his second term (the reasons for which you can argue among yourselves) their chance to complete their plans might have been put back by decades, he had to go and now they're desperate for a totalitarian state style show trial to get rid of him permanently.

No doubt i'm a conspiracy theorist, i'd better say that straight off because thats what anyone who doesn't read from and repeat mantra like verse by verse from the correct hymnsheet as instructed 24/7 via the telly is usually accused of or being a closet David Icke...a man ironically proving to be one of the sanest around when you look at the lunatics supposedly in charge now.


The 'Cult of Covid' is all pervasive in Ireland too.

for some reason Covid is only a major issue in the English speaking world and the EU. Not much interest (despite what you read in the press) in much of the world.

They solved the problem overnight in Tanzania............ just treated it like the flu or any other regular disease.. Very simple.

Cannot wait to get out of Europe for a while again, but i'm stuck here for work reasons til May at least.
 
all part of the conspiracy theory BS.
i know/know of a few people who believe this shite. i get regular messages off them with links to you tube vids. "you gotta watch this! this is what ive been telling you about!"

yawn..

trying to keep an open mind i watch them though. then, as ever, after wasting an hour of my life, i always come to the same conclusion;
people actually believe this crap?

some points in this article actually describe them pretty well;

2. Conspiracy theory believers have common traits.
While conspiracy theory believers are often trying to satisfy unmet psychological needs, they share other common traits. Douglas' research suggests that narcissists and people who yearn to feel unique tend to adopt conspiracy theories. She says that seeking information others do not possess helps them feel superior to others.

"Perhaps conspiracy theories allow people to feel that they are in possession of rare, important information that other people do not have, making them feel special and thus boosting their self‐esteem," Douglas wrote in the 2019 article.

The research Douglas and her co-authors described in that paper indicates that people who experience anxiety, have difficulty distinguishing fact from fiction, feel powerless and alienated from politics, hold prejudices toward certain groups, adopt a quasi-religious mentality, and engage in "non-clinical delusional thinking" may be more prone to conspiracy theorizing.

Political views matter as well. People at both extremes of the political spectrum tend to believe in conspiracy theories more, says Douglas. The association between ideology and conspiracy theory beliefs isn't clear yet, but it might be linked to people's need to feel positively about the groups to which they belong, including political parties. An unproven theory that casts one group as malevolently threatened by its opposition could strengthen that group's sense of identity and belonging.


Douglas says it's important for people to know that their "political biases might influence how they process certain types of information."

While scientific research has found associations between conspiracy beliefs and certain personality traits, it's still unclear whether those links are causal. The connection between anxiousness and conspiracy theorizing, for example, might happen because anxiety makes people more vulnerable to those beliefs, or because people become more anxious as they learn about and endorse those ideas.

Shauna Bowes, a fourth-year graduate student researcher in clinical psychology at Emory University, conducted a study that tried to better understand individual personality traits associated with conspiracy beliefs. The results, published recently in the Journal of Personality, echoed previous findings that narcissism, poor critical thinking skills, intellectual certainty, reduced inquisitiveness, and anxiety and depression, among other factors, all play a role. Intellectual humility was negatively associated with adopting conspiracy theories, suggesting that modesty and reflection are an advantage.

Bowes says that if more people "pump the brakes" as they assess their beliefs, pausing to see if they include one or more conspiracy theories, it would help make them less vulnerable to those views.

"Changing beliefs is notoriously hard," says Bowes. "[G]etting people to revise their opinions is challenging because we hold our beliefs to certainty. We have a lot of work to do to figure out how to inoculate against [conspiracy] beliefs."

While you can't change strong personality traits or political affiliations overnight, you can improve your ability to cope with uncertainty. Feeling more confident when life is unpredictable may help protect you from the influence of conspiracy theories. That means you're less eager to improve your self-esteem by adopting a specific belief in order to feel special or superior to others.

If you struggle with uncertainty, find ways to enhance existing coping skills or learn new ones. This could mean strengthening ties with family or friends to feel more connected to others, practicing mindfulness to deal with anxiety, cultivating moments of joy to reduce stress, volunteering to give yourself an improved sense of purpose, or seeking therapy to manage your worries.

"With the pandemic and the economic calamity we face, everybody is stressed out, and everybody is super vulnerable, if not to QAnon, then to something else," says Hassan.



anyway, im off to join the flat earth society..

No offence meant, but while all the above might be very clever speak, or part of someone’s thesis of how to assemble 100,000 words without saying anything, my approach to anything like this (it goes for global warming too) is to look at the data.

Take the US for example, it’s a good one to use because of all the 50 states, each has its own published statistics and data, but there was no federal “rules” to follow regarding COVID-19. Each state Governor chose how to deal with it at local level. Some had lockdown, some didn’t, some had mask mandates, others didn’t, some (one in particular) returned COVID-19 patients back to nursing homes, killing thousands, but that’s another story.

Anyway, what I’ve found interesting is that the graphs of cases and deaths for all the states are uncannily similar in shape, the numbers are different, but the curves are almost identical, even though the ‘measures’ taken were as diverse as they could possibly be.
Even state by state, if you look at when mask mandates were introduced (for example) the curves didn’t change one iota, even though Govenors introduced mask mandates on the advice of so-called medical scientists.

The proof of the pudding is always in the eating.

Climate, yes the climate is changing, it always has and always will do. Have we humans affected it? The powers that be (Gore et al) would say yes and it’s all CO2s fault, so we’ll tax CO2. It’s easy to do a Greta, jump on the same bus, panic and scrap the car and buy an electric... wtf.

But do some research, look at the facts. Michael Mann’s hockey stick ‘model’ was a paid up front hoax. He doctored the historic records and produced a scary monster. That was 1995 and not one of his predictions has come anywhere near close to coming true. The warmest period in the US was in the 1930s, how many SUVs were belching CO2 then? But Mann’s graphs don’t show that warm period. The Arctic sea was going to be ice-free by the year 2000, then 2010, then 2014, then 2018, then 2020. Well, it’s 2021 now and the Arctic sea ice is slightly less than the last 150 year average.

Considering the earth is still emerging from the last ice age, it’s not surprising things are warming up ... but very slowly, not the exponential, past the tipping point type hockey stick scare we were all supposed to suck up. Obama milked that one to the hilt.

And the legacy is still with us all, wind farms, solar panels, neither of which can get any closer than 5-10 % of power demand, and the promise of 100% electric cars by 2035 or whatever will be trebling that demand. It’s all an arse-about-face approach to a fabricated problem for political and short-term subsidies and financial gain. The wind farms built in the late 90s are all but derelict now, nobody will replace them, they haven’t even broken even with the real cost of building them, let alone their own huge CO2 footprint to construct them.

Whatever is right and whatever is wrong, my beef is that if you question anything these days, you’re a conspiracy theorist. Nobody is permitted to think or use common sense, it’s way too dangerous.

The Chinese hacked the voting machines in the 2020 USA elections, reduced the Trump votes by several hundred thousand. I can’t prove it, but I’ve seen evidence. Twitter that, you get taken down, and by the way the democrats are behaving lately, you’ll end up in prison, even if it’s eventually proven to be true.

Do I care? Not really, I don’t have to suffer a demented lying crook as my president.

But do I really care? Of course I do, I want to uphold democracy or rather I don’t want folks to end up in a Marxist tyranny under the false disguise of democracy.

The world’s gone to shit in the last 20 years, and all folks can do I sit on their asses muttering ‘conspiracy theorists’ instead of taking an interest to find out what’s really going on.

The USA should be a warning to all of us, it’s coming our way wherever we are.

Sorry, rant over... and again apologies for going off track, but the COVID-19 shambles is a classic example of politics getting tangled up with reality, and once that happens, nothing is real or dependable anymore.

As Karl says, we each have our views.
 
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i very rarely take offence clive.

indeed, we all have our views and opinions, and believe me, im more than aware the threat the far left pose to the right to express these. including there propaganda machines that are a majority of the MSM, academia, local councils, institutions such as the national trust etc. that would be a thread in its self to do it justice.

i think i expressed my opinion on the wind turbines in another thread.:)

i was a huge MMGW sceptic years ago, one of my main gripes was the "since records began" line. which were five minutes ago in the time line of the planet. ive relaxed about the whole thing though tbh, because its made a lot of people aware to the fact that we cant just keep trashing the place, and a lot of policies will be good for the environment.

i think a large portion of the population can just be programmed. be it to fit in with current thinking in there section of society or to do well in there job.

i dont think questioning the so called normal makes someone a conspiracy theorist, but there are those who seem to be serial conspiracists. rejecting anything that is perceived to be mainstream. searching for an alternative view that is usually found on social media, or from there mate dave who stays up way past his bed time trawling the internet for proof of what he always thought was the truth. (is that the time?..)

i get your point about my link, but it pretty much sums up my experience of the believers, and come on, the earth is flat? covid jabs alter your DNA? 5G causes covid? devil worshiping? etc, etc,etc..........:)
 
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Personally i don't have much time for conspiracy theories , though the 4 year media war on Trump and the fact they ended up with a President who wouldn't be asked to organize a rest home game of pass the parcel for fear it might prove to taxing for him really does beg the question "who is in charge"?

I come from a little Island of maybe 100k people which is on the face of it an open and free democracy . But nobody votes , what's the point in voting when government policy will not and cannot be changed . It's a soft dictatorship that doesn't even bother to try and hide the corruption from its locals . Anyone can be jailed on a whim , or deported if not born there or indeed avoid prison for serious crime because it's who you know not what you know that counts .

It's a soft dictatorship but there's no grand plan , it's not micromanaged towards some ultimate goal .

I guess free market consumerism will always levitate into something more resembling the reality of communism as the divide between have and have-nots grows unchecked . It doesn't need a grand plan .

If i bought up all the houses in this street and rented them back to the current residents i'd want to flatten all the gardens , plaster all the houses paint them white , cobble the road , remove the pavements - turn it into a little cul-de-sac community pocket increasing the value considerably over what it is as a dead end street . That would make me a small time soft power dictator .

"whats in it for me" is human nature , hence we have the windfarm gravy train and huge construction companies that start building long before they get planning permission , supermarkets taking over corner shops , politicians who will step up or shut up , everything has a price .

If you want to see a grand plan conspiracy look to the EU which openly promotes all the above as a great and progressive idea and they sell it with woke nonsense .

Kids actually believe there was no open sexual open minds , no public conscience or guilt of historic deeds nor care for the natural world before their generation came along to fight for it .

I guess The Peace Movement founded in 1815 might have been considerably more successful if they had facebook and twitter . Imagine Woodstock today , America isn't big enough to hold the event .
 
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All of what we know is hearsay unless we experience it at first hand. Even then, apparently lol, 2 different people can recall 2 different events of the same Scenario.

BTW it does not matter whether Covid is put on the death certificate or not. That death will only be recorded as due to Covid if it happened within 28 days of that person having a positive Covid test.

Without scientific testing the facts we believe in are just our own opinion.

The creators of facts are e.g. Leonardo da Devinci and many other leading scientists. Many were banned because people did not like straying from unprovable beliefs like religion.
 
"whats in it for me" is human nature
That is a human trait but i don't think it's dominant.So called human nature doesn't have a scientific or philosophical definition that can be agreed on .
 
Whatever is right and whatever is wrong, my beef is that if you question anything these days, you’re a conspiracy theorist
You presented as fact the theory that China secretly influenced the US election = the definition of a conspiracy theory.
As for climate change i'n with the scientists on this .
" Nearly all actively publishing climate scientists (97–98%[3]) support the consensus on anthropogenic climate change,[4][5] and the remaining 2% of contrarian studies either cannot be replicated or contain errors.[6] A 2019 study found scientific consensus to be at 100% .
from the Wikipedia on scientific consensus on climate change
For decades the Tobacco and asbestos industries denied the facts on their toxic products & Exxon knew as far back as the mid 70s that climate change was man made but then spent millions over the next decades funding denial. Your beliefs Clive put you in a small but exclusive club along with antivaxxers . chemtrail believers & other discredited theories.Try using the words fact check or science in your internet searches on these subjects.
 
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