HDK C/V joints

Yes yes another c/v debate, but I'm trying to get some real info here.

i have recently been bought a pair of HDK c/v's along with the thicker flanges for my 1992 80, it's a conversion kit that Milners do. My 80 has no front locker so I'm hoping the c/v's will not be too stressed.

Milners have been selling them for quite some time now so can they really be that bad as some folks say?

What I want to know is, how many folks have fitted HDK's and had no issues? Also, how many folks have had them and been let down by them?

i don't do radical axle twisting off roading, but I do spend 3/4 weeks a year in Morocco, so I'm hoping these will be okay....

Well as you know from the other thread running I had a double (early) catastrophic failure on mine and anyone who knows me will tell you I don't off road hard. It's called mechanical sympathy. I think you could gather info on how many people bought them and how many had failures, but for those who have not had an issue, I can't say whether the data is valid or not - not unless they strip their axles and have a good look at the CV to see if there is wear in there.The balls did seem very hard. Well who is going to make soft ball bearings? Cages were OK but the cups were so soft that I think it wouldn't take much beyond normal tarmac driving to distort one and then that's the top of the slippery slope. Price of genuine is truly shocking, but for me unless it's a fix and flog vehicle, I'll be fitting genuine. Certainly never HDK again even though out of the box they look better than genuine. We do need a source of mid priced reliable CVs.

Chris said:

Well as you know from the other thread running I had a double (early) catastrophic failure on mine and anyone who knows me will tell you I don't off road hard. It's called mechanical sympathy.....

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This is what I'm trying to find out. Is it the 'norm' to have such failures with HDK or is yours an isolated incident maybe? A dodgy batch?

Chris said:

.... I think you could gather info on how many people bought them and how many had failures....

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That is essentially what I'm trying to find out.

Well I'm not the only one who's had this so it can't be isolated and both of mine went.
Pay your money take your chance
I'm an advocate of Milner and I've said I'd never fit HDK again
Flip a coin if you like or listen to the evidence
Don't see how you'd get a bad batch of £79 cvs

I am always in two minds to join the HDK debate. Seems they are very hit and miss.
Better no doubt than a lot of the ebay junk around.

Have had a set in for two years now and they have been OK for the time I have had them.
It has been a mixture DD on road and fairly mild weekends off-road use but it is always in the back of my mind that they could let go the way Chris's went.

Now that I have recently upped the tyre sizes I am planning to bite the bullet and fit a set of OEM and keep the HDKs as spares.
That's if they don't crap themselves before then.

Will be interested to see what state they are in when I pull them.
Would I trust a set taking me somewhere remote - Nope.

Dave.

just out off interest whats the cost of a genuine cv

cwc said:

just out off interest whats the cost of a genuine cv

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Something ridiculous like £700 if you by it from Toyota UK.

About a quarter to a third of that if you buy it outside of the EU.

Chris said:

....listen to the evidence....

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That was why I created this thread to see if there was a balance, or if all HDK's have had such catastrauphic failures.

Knucklehead said:

Have had a set in for two years now and they have been OK for the time I have had them.... Now that I have recently upped the tyre sizes I am planning to bite the bullet and fit a set of OEM and keep the HDKs as spares....

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Thanks for the info Dave. If you do replace them, it would be good to know what they look like after 2 years use..... let's us know here if you would.

yogi said:

Something ridiculous like £700 if you by it from Toyota UK.


About a quarter to a third of that if you buy it outside of the EU.

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i was quoted over £800 for one.... if they were nearer a third of that it would be going genuine for sure.

As my 80 is a pre ABS model, does anyone know if the c/v's with ABS rings will fit inside the hub? I have a feeling they will but not 100% sure. The kit I have just acquired has the thicker flanges so if I do go genuine I will have to go with post 93 c/v's which will obviously have the ABS ring.

As far as I know the hubs are the same size. It's just the flange that's different. The ABS rings just tap off by the way.

AFAIK they fit just the same, with or without the ABS ring.

My truck does not have ABS, and the the previous pair of CVs I had were from the same manufacturer, but due to availability, one had the ABS ring and the other didn't.

Bat21 said:

Thanks for the info Dave. If you do replace them, it would be good to know what they look like after 2 years use..... let's us know here if you would.

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No problem. Will be summer before pick up my OEMs on way back from OZ. Hopefully fitting on return.
Will be interested to see myself how these cheapies have faired.
Expecting to see some good grooves showing up on them.

I can confirm that HDK's with a ABS ring fit into older models' hubs.
I can confirm (regardless of what happens tomorrow ) that I apparently won a lottery and got a pair oh good HDK's from Milner.
One overheated quite a bit in October 2013 (remember?) and is still going strong. Well, maybe this only hardened it. But anyway, the other one was not heat-treated (yet).
Both survived more than 60000 km until now, at least 40000 of this in Sahara and sahel expedition 2012-2014 (very little tarmac), they survived this summer when the vehicle was in service as a bush-taxi for tourists (mostly from UK) visiting the Slovenian outback.

Those HDK CV's already served (two, three times) the price I payed fror them. And when one breaks, I will without reluctance buy another set of HDK's.
Maybe after that my opinion on HDK's will change. But until then ...

vrecha said:

.... I can confirm (regardless of what happens tomorrow ) that I apparently won a lottery and got a pair oh good HDK's from Milner....

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Thanks chap, I knew there must be some sort of balance out there. I'm hoping I will be a 'lottery winner' too with my latest acquisition of HDK's

i don't doubt Chris's experiences but thought they surely aren't all made of cheese. I currently have a pair of Milners fitted but I'm pretty certain they are not HDK's, Lezures (spelling) maybe, they have done 50,000+ km, including 3 trips to Morocco, but I have decided to change them to the later thicker flange type

The Lezura ones were always quite highly regarded. Karl used to have them in stock but the supply dried up I think.

I am certain not everyone has had my experience. But you know when one breaks, takes out the inside of your hub, wipes out the ABS (where fitted) and smashes a tooth off your diff expect a big dose of, Well I did tell you.....

Look, I am sure that most of the time they are fine, but really they are so soft other than where they seem to have been flame hardened in the cup, they will tend toward slight distortion with use and then one day you will do something different ab bang. All I did was reverse off the drive. I drove home and all was well. Next day I did 5 meters maybe, full lock in reverse and.. well you have seen the pictures. That rip from top to bottom wasn't done off the vehicle.

What I am saying really is buyer beware. Absence of history isn't history of absence as they say. Just as I can't say all HDK are shite because mine were, you guys can't say yours have been fine ergo all HDKs are fine. There IS something questionable about them. If there was a clear choice I'd say buy something else (other them OEM) but really there isn't much out there hence the topic.

Me? Like I said, genuine only but that's my choice. To spend what I have spent which is considerable to build a machine capable and reliable enough to do what I'd like it to do then knowingly stick a £60 HDK in there would be laughable. If I just went to pay and plays in an old beaten up 80, I'd use them and throw half a dozen in the boot for good luck.

Are they all shocking. I can't say. Would that have happened to a PAIR of genuines? I'd say not. Nuff said. I fit loads of after market bits but CVs and inner seals, genuine. They're bits that you can't cobble. Starters? Bump it or leave it running. Alternators? Keep swapping batteries. Wipers? Tie some string to them. Ok you get the point. CV? Well I guess you pull the prop and the shafts maybe even the diff and lock the CD I guess, but it's a heck of a bit of work at the side of the road.

Those guys like Vrecha who have had great service from them - I simply can't argue with that evidence. This could simply be a change in the manufacture, yes or a batch. But that sounds like a lottery to me and not one I am keen to come up on.

I've just done the 3rd CV joint in 4 months .... didn't get any of mine from Milners tho .... they came from "Roughtrax"

Worth noting that Milner do a great deal with the trade. Many places selling stuff that is bought to avoid dealing with Milner (through personal choice) comes from them in the first place. Their operation is huge. I was there today and they had what must have been 20 pallets of leaf springs on the bay, each pallet with probably 10 sets of springs on. That sort of volume doesn't go out over the counter.

Who knows where Roughtrax get theirs. That's quite an attrition rate though. You must be an expert at swapping them by now.

Quick post script to that. Just had a look on Roughtrax website at their CVs. What does it say? Manufactured by HDK in Japan. I guess we can add three more to the tally there then. Had they had some off road use then Carl. I know you like to get muddy

Chris said:

Quick post script to that. Just had a look on Roughtrax website at their CVs. What does it say? Manufactured by HDK in Japan. I guess we can add three more to the tally there then. Had they had some off road use then Carl. I know you like to get muddy

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I don't push my 80 at all offroad. ..... the last CV's (after I'd removed the VC) failed on the inner cage, and I hadn't been offroad at all on them.
Had two fail on the inner cage now. ... couldn't see a manufacture name on them anywhere so they were probably cheep Chinese stuff

Hmmmm okay, I have just had a Milners HDK and a genuine C/V in my hands. The HDK one is visible smaller

The outer cup is 5mm smaller in diameter and the bearings are 2mmm smaller. It will fit as all the dimensions are correct where they need to be but I'm not impressed that the HDK one is clearly a compromise.

So, what are the chances of Milners taking these back? I still want to keep the wider flanges that came with the C/V's but may now explore the Genuine route.

Who is the guy on here that can supply genuine with a reasonable discount.... is it Simon?

Simon Holton at Steven Eagell Toyota 01296 673560