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Member converts to Bio-diesel

Nathan will give you a better respond to this Graham but from what i believe already. When bio is made correctly it should be no different to diesel.I have used bio about six months ago and i couldnt notice any difference at all apart from first start up little more smoke (audi tdi) Only couple of seconds more then exactly the same as diesel
 
When the bio is all washed and clean, how suitable would it be for a 120 diesel ie, the common rail 1KD-FTV (D4-d) engine?

Gra.

Graham

It would be perfect! I run it in a 2008 mini cooper diesel with a dpf, I know guys that have used it in brand new cars and the only time the car sees Derv is just before a service when the car gets run practically dry and filled with the fossil stuff so that nothing gets picked up when the fuel filter is being changed.

The more modern the car, the less tolerance there will be to poorly made fuel.

In the second picture above, you can see contaminant that has been centrifuged out of fuel that many home brewers would think is ok to put in their cars.
 
Nathan will give you a better respond to this Graham but from what i believe already. When bio is made correctly it should be no different to diesel.I have used bio about six months ago and i couldnt notice any difference at all apart from first start up little more smoke (audi tdi) Only couple of seconds more then exactly the same as diesel

That's basically it. Ref the start up, you will only notice the difference at below 2 0r 3 deg C
 
Hi Karl & Natanrob,

Interesting,

Thanks.

Gra.
 
My smoke on start up could have actually been poor bio Nathan I will never know. Could have Been when temp was colder when started using it last time. Hopefully get the tanks set up tonight :icon-biggrin:
 
was looking at putting an SVO system on my old Pug 205, and reckon I could go SVO on my 'cruiser, however my dad's bimmer is common rail, and he's interested in a system. As he has more space in his garage than mine, and I can automate it all (I'm a control systems engineer and I've got a load of PIC stuff floating around) I might be able to setup an end-to-end process if I can get some instrumentation for the tritration stage (or I just go clean soy-oil from the beginning)

You're right, the cost per batch is small enough to not bother investing in the 24V system and generators, but if you're off grid already, at least you can see what sort of drain it'll put on your battery's (if you've gone down that route)
 
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was looking at putting an SVO system on my old Pug 205, and reckon I could go SVO on my 'cruiser, however my dad's bimmer is common rail, and he's interested in a system. As he has more space in his garage than mine, and I can automate it all (I'm a control systems engineer and I've got a load of PIC stuff floating around) I might be able to setup an end-to-end process if I can get some instrumentation for the tritration stage (or I just go clean soy-oil from the beginning)

You're right, the cost per batch is small enough to not bother investing in the 24V system and generators, but if you're off grid already, at least you can see what sort of drain it'll put on your battery's (if you've gone down that route)

I'd love to automate things like temperature and duration of pumping. I guess unless you know about setting up optical sensors with automated valves, or monitoring water ppms on the drying side, temp and timings would be it. Still it would be a great move forward.

Ref titration, that's old hat and for girls. Most people I know use 16 - 18% meth overall, split into 70% & 30% with 7 grams of lye in the first (70%) dose, with the 2nd stage being based on a 10/90 drop out test. This will tell you how many litres of unconverted veg oil remain in the mix. You dose this remaining veg oil with 7 grams of potassium Hydroxide flake and the balance 30% meth... Simples!!
 
Tanks set up and first 100L of wvo going through the filter into the first process of de watering. Already i can see why nathan has added things and why his processor is how it is now. Because its cold and im waiting next to the oil its talking a while to filter. Tomorrow night i will know to bring some oil back in the car with the heaters full blast to at least get the temp slightly up.

So, The first process as far as i can see with take very little time and effort. It will be fine when ive done a couple of batches as im sure im going to pick it up quicker than i thought.

Quite chuffed theres oil in there allready :icon-biggrin:
 
My first thoughts are how do you cheaply identify when conversion is complete - sampling a specific volume and measuring the weight would get you specific gravity (and that's easily done with a load sensor) and you could set it up to repetitively sample and measure, but doing it on the fly may be tricky - optically can be impaired by impurities in the system.

Level sensors are easy enough (optical or ultrasonic reflection) and convert nicely, however a float switch is as simple as it comes. Controlling valves can get a bit tricky, usually pneumatics are used (simple 24V solenoid to control the air supply hence one of the reasons for going 24V) because it's easier to control.

Monitoring water levels you may be able to do by monitoring humidity of the air in the tank (and there's sensors for that) and pH monitors are available (in case you want to check for neutrality - might be able to use that for an automated tritration test and a small dosing pump and a low concentration of lye solution - actually that may allow you to load up and then it'll automatically work out the lye dose)
 
My first thoughts are how do you cheaply identify when conversion is complete - sampling a specific volume and measuring the weight would get you specific gravity (and that's easily done with a load sensor) and you could set it up to repetitively sample and measure, but doing it on the fly may be tricky - optically can be impaired by impurities in the system.

Level sensors are easy enough (optical or ultrasonic reflection) and convert nicely, however a float switch is as simple as it comes. Controlling valves can get a bit tricky, usually pneumatics are used (simple 24V solenoid to control the air supply hence one of the reasons for going 24V) because it's easier to control.

Monitoring water levels you may be able to do by monitoring humidity of the air in the tank (and there's sensors for that) and pH monitors are available (in case you want to check for neutrality - might be able to use that for an automated tritration test and a small dosing pump and a low concentration of lye solution - actually that may allow you to load up and then it'll automatically work out the lye dose)

Music to my ears! Firstly, with dewatering, you just want to heat the oil, cycle the pump for a bit via a diffuser, which will spray off some water and then leave to settle overnight - then run off any water and emulsified oil until you reach clearish oil. So some of what you are describing would achieve that

Next process involves heating to 60 - 70 deg C (possibly in another tank), then drawing in methoxide, then the reaction begins (pump runs for 90 - 120 mins). After this the oil is allowed to settle and the glycerin byproduct dropped off. But there's always a bit more glycerin in the mix, so that would complicate measuring S.G.?? The normal test is to take a 10ml sample and try to dissolve in 90ml of methanol - whatever drops out is measured in 0.1ml increments and indicates the % of veg oil in the processor left to react.

PH sensors would be really good for neutralising the bio prior to pump washing with water! Not sure about titration, and off-line titration tests are now considered old hat - but automated it may mean that an amount of meth could be drawn into a separate tank and mixed with the right amount of lye (again two stage leads to a better yield and final fuel and an easier process to purify).

Your solution for drying sounds very workable?

I feel a new processor coming on. All in stainless and completely automated :)
 
Tanks set up and first 100L of wvo going through the filter into the first process of de watering. Already i can see why nathan has added things and why his processor is how it is now. Because its cold and im waiting next to the oil its talking a while to filter. Tomorrow night i will know to bring some oil back in the car with the heaters full blast to at least get the temp slightly up.

So, The first process as far as i can see with take very little time and effort. It will be fine when ive done a couple of batches as im sure im going to pick it up quicker than i thought.

Quite chuffed theres oil in there allready :icon-biggrin:

Mate

The first batch always seems the hardest.
 
New processor Nathan.

Do i save the pennies for the one i have now then or save a few more for the new improved one coming? :lol:
 
Got a few ideas bouncing around now - 1) scale up your 90/10 test by 100 then you can get it in a tall column and use ultrasonics to measure the level - but I've got a feeling that the height you need to get acceptable accurancy will mean a very narrow column and a it may distort the ultrasonic return, then again, perhaps not, so long as it gives a definite level, then you can calibrate it and figure out (automagically) the height of the least dense column. 2) Specific Gravity could be used (known volume of methanol + known volume of process fluid, compared against SG of pure methanol) but you'd need to know what SG is acceptable compared to the SG of Methanol, but that could be fine tuned on the fly

If you know that glycerin will form after XX minutes, then you just sit and wait for a bit until the timer expires, then drain until a float level indicates no more glycerin in the tank (you set the float to be heavier than the oil, but lighter than the glycerin and a simple push switch for it to land on indicates that the glycerin is drained - there's something like this in the fuel filter on landcruisers to indicate there's water in the fuel filter) once the glycerin is removed, you've changed the SG of your process fluid, and if you've hit the right level, you move it out to your post-wash, or you dose up more methanol and wait a bit longer.

Might need a bit of trickery to filter out unwanted vibrations and sudden changes, but the real question is what sort of variance in specific gravity do you see between batches? If it swings about a bit, then it may not be a good indicator.

Managed to find something a bit more interesting - direct measurement of water content in oil:

http://www.meas-spec.com/product/fluid-property-sensor-HTM2500B3C4OIL.aspx

So you can probably measure direct water content, does make me wonder how it reacts to methanol though....

Valves start getting expensive - a 1mm port valve (typical air actuator) is less than £20 per valve (around £16 on RS) but the actual pneumatic valve is around £200 each (solenoid valves are not suitable for the sort of pressure/flow I see going on in the appleseed reactors) and if you need half a dozen of them, then you're looking at the thick end of £1k before you've even looked at electronics to drive it all (and at this point I'd say get a dedicated PLC).

I'm wondering if the torque from an RC servo can be scaled up to operate a ball valve (the valves don't need to be fast acting do they) and if that can work, then there's a cheaper solution there and that can be driven with something cheap
 
Got a few ideas bouncing around now - 1) scale up your 90/10 test by 100 then you can get it in a tall column and use ultrasonics to measure the level - but I've got a feeling that the height you need to get acceptable accurancy will mean a very narrow column and a it may distort the ultrasonic return, then again, perhaps not, so long as it gives a definite level, then you can calibrate it and figure out (automagically) the height of the least dense column. 2) Specific Gravity could be used (known volume of methanol + known volume of process fluid, compared against SG of pure methanol) but you'd need to know what SG is acceptable compared to the SG of Methanol, but that could be fine tuned on the fly. How difficult would it be to set up a trial?

If you know that glycerin will form after XX minutes, then you just sit and wait for a bit until the timer expires, then drain until a float level indicates no more glycerin in the tank (you set the float to be heavier than the oil, but lighter than the glycerin and a simple push switch for it to land on indicates that the glycerin is drained - there's something like this in the fuel filter on landcruisers to indicate there's water in the fuel filter) once the glycerin is removed, you've changed the SG of your process fluid, and if you've hit the right level, you move it out to your post-wash, or you dose up more methanol and wait a bit longer.

The glyc is produced throughout the reaction process, with the greatest amount being produced in the first 5 - 10 minutes. So the first process runs for say 90 minutes then 45 mins to allow the glycerin to drop out of the fuel - so sounds like this may work well!

Might need a bit of trickery to filter out unwanted vibrations and sudden changes, but the real question is what sort of variance in specific gravity do you see between batches? If it swings about a bit, then it may not be a good indicator. I would imagine that the SG of biodiesel from similar feedstocks will remain reasonably constant at a given temperature?? But I could soon do a few tests and graph out any variation at say 40 C then graph differences at maybe 5 deg. Would this help us to calibrate?

Managed to find something a bit more interesting - direct measurement of water content in oil:

http://www.meas-spec.com/product/fluid-property-sensor-HTM2500B3C4OIL.aspx

So you can probably measure direct water content, does make me wonder how it reacts to methanol though....

The sensor could be used firstly to ensure that the feedstock is dry enough, before dosing. After this any water created in the reaction is irrelevant in that you can't do anything about it. Then during drying all of the methanol has been flush out by the water down to very, very low ppms. Water content of finished fuel should be <500ppm or half an ml in a litre. There is also an offline tester called a sandy brae http://www.sandybrae.com/watertest.htm . It's made in the U.S. and $250 plus p&p but it simply uses a pressure gauge to measure the increased pressure from gas when the fuel is reacted with Calcium Hydride - could that principle be used anywhere?

Valves start getting expensive - a 1mm port valve (typical air actuator) is less than £20 per valve (around £16 on RS) but the actual pneumatic valve is around £200 each (solenoid valves are not suitable for the sort of pressure/flow I see going on in the appleseed reactors) and if you need half a dozen of them, then you're looking at the thick end of £1k before you've even looked at electronics to drive it all (and at this point I'd say get a dedicated PLC).

I'm wondering if the torque from an RC servo can be scaled up to operate a ball valve (the valves don't need to be fast acting do they) and if that can work, then there's a cheaper solution there and that can be driven with something cheap
The slower the valves open the better and ideally not full flow. Closing speed would determine the amount of bio that is allowed out with either Glycerin or Water during the wash cycle. But if it's opened to the equivalent flow that you'd get from a 3/8" hose tail (rather than 1") that should be a problem. It would also stop the whirlpool effect that you see when you pull the bath plug out!
 
Weigh some 1L (need to be accurate) volumes of Just Mixed/after initial reaction/completed reaction batches (need to be accurate, needs to all be at the same temp) and that'll prove if you can use weight (specific gravity) to indicate a completed reaction instead of a drop test
 
I'm looking into pH metering with a PIC, may be able to come up with a reasonable meter for around £80, which will form the basis of a tritration test - so you can mix methox to the correct value for the reactor and then use your drop test as a quality control check rather than an indicator of reaction progression
 
Well.

First 140 L has been through the de water process and left to stand overnight. Will drop the water out in the morning and transfer the oil into the processer tank.(middle one in Nathans photo. The de water tank is the one on the right of the photo.

After i have transfered the oil over i will put the striner back over the se water tank and start some oil filtering ready to get any 140L de watered tomoz night.

All starting getting exciting now.:icon-biggrin:
 
Good progress Karl,
May all your bio be good bio.

Happy miles again.

Gra.
 
Cheer Graham.

Nathan has had plenty of years at it so as long as i do as im told for a change all should be good.
 
If you have a dirty old pan available there is a way of checking for dry oil on your first batch (you forgot the glycerin here). You heat the pan and drop in a spoonful of oil (this works for SVO users too), if it sizzles there is still water present.

Just to explain to everyone else, some home brewers, just before dosing, heat their feedstock and add in the glycerin made in the previous batch. Because it's hygroscopic it'll pull the water ppms down, it's high viscosity and stickiness will drag out finer particles than the strainer (these particles maybe holding water) and start the reaction as it will contain some unspent lye and meth.

Now assuming that it is 140 litres you'll need 20 litres of Meth (18% x 80% - this can be reduced to 16% x 80% if you are getting a good 1st stage reaction - the balance 18% x 20% goes in the 2nd stage), with 980 grams of Potassium Hydroxide (KOH) - don't forget your PPE.

NOTE METH IS FLAMMABLE / KOH DUST SHOULDN'T BE BREATHED
HEATER ELEMENTS SHOULDN'T BE LEFT ON WITHOUT BEING COVERED BY OIL

Heat the processor with it's oil to 70deg C. Mix the koh / meth in the white mixing container untill ALL of the KOH has dissolved, then you need to pull into the oil via the 1/2" tube on the suction side of the pump.

YOU WILL NOTICE THAT THE PROCESSOR IS SEALED (VENTED THROUGH THE CONDENSER) TO PREVENT FUMES ESCAPING INTO THE WORKING AREA
 
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