Member converts to Bio-diesel

[karl webster]

Total has been a very productive day.

My oil had gone through the dewater tank the other night and i had transfered it into the middle tank (processor)

Ive had a hand with it all today and must say it has taken all the nerves out of the job. So far it has all been simple enough and im looking forward to the final stages. As i type this i am leavin my bio to settle so i can pull off vineger and do a simple test on the bio. If its all good i will be adding the first 10-15 L of clean water and mixing it to do the first wash. do this three times and then nearly ready to put it through the centrifuge filter and hey presto 25pence per litre bio fuel.

Karl

 

[Chas]

If its all good i will be adding the first 10-15 L of clean water and mixing it to do the first wash.
Karl

Half a mo, you add water to have to take it out again.

 

[karl webster]

Its crazy chas. Ive just this min added 15L of clen water to it. the machine sprays it into the top of the tank nd mixes with the oil.I will have to do the same again tomorrow twice. What it does is as we all know oil will float on water as water is heavier. So im mixing it now and ill leave to settle tonight as im ready for some zzzzzzzzs. In the morning i will drop the water out that will have carried anthying to the bottom. I do it two more times then do a visual test in a glass jar.

Washing fuel i would never have believed it.

 

[Chas]

Its crazy chas. Ive just this min added 15L of clen water to it. the machine sprays it into the top of the tank nd mixes with the oil.I will have to do the same again tomorrow twice. What it does is as we all know oil will float on water as water is heavier. So im mixing it now and ill leave to settle tonight as im ready for some zzzzzzzzs. In the morning i will drop the water out that will have carried anthying to the bottom. I do it two more times then do a visual test in a glass jar.

Washing fuel i would never have believed it.

I wondered what 'washing fuel' meant, that explains it, thanks Karl.

 

[karl webster]

I maybe slightly wrong but i think im on the right lines

 

[nathanrobo]

Some brewers water wash, some dry wash... Dry washing requires completely demeting and either settling so that soaps etc drop out or passing through ion exchange media.

Water washers were considered old fashioned until a recent test revealed that water washed fuel lacked the contaminants and problems often found with dry-washed. I always stayed with water washed fuel as I could see by the discharge water, how clean the fuel was.

After washing the fuel, it's dried using a spray ring (tube bend the internal circumference of the tank) with 50 2mm holes driven by a 60lpm pump. There's a test to prove that it's dry. After this it's centrifuged and dispensed via final polishing / drying pots which ensure that the final ppms of water are removed down to <500ppm

The finished result looks like fine Scotch that sparkles with a relatively low viscosity.

I was thinking about doing a separate thread with photos at each stage of the process or maybe doing something by video (edited to shorten) and hosting it on youtube? What do you think?

 

[oostsco]

Nathan/Karl i absolutely love what you are doing but my initial excitement has now been replaced by reality ............ I just don't have the space to do something like this - what are the alternatives?

It sounds like the small all in one bio-processors may not be ideal but what about a 2-Tank Vegetable Kit which seem to take care of most issues like polymerization etc. if used with new rapeseed oil.

 

[warrenpfo]

This is all very exciting and I look forward to the outcome. One question that has not been asked is the initial setup cost. Is this setup an off the shelf purchase or does it require some home fabrication?

all very interesting

 

[nathanrobo]

Nathan/Karl i absolutely love what you are doing but my initial excitement has now been replaced by reality ............ I just don't have the space to do something like this - what are the alternatives?

It sounds like the small all in one bio-processors may not be ideal but what about a 2-Tank Vegetable Kit which seem to take care of most issues like polymerization etc. if used with new rapeseed oil.

Ref the space, the three tanks are not critical, the middle processor would suffice for all processes. so it's the footprint of a steel drum. Ref polymerisation, I'm aware of the problem, but I've never used new or use oil as fuel, so to what extent it happens with new vs. used oil, I'm not sure. However with the cost of new oil I'd personally not feel that the small saving would be worth the risk - just my opinion - I guess somebody with SVO experience will chime in.

 

[nathanrobo]

This is all very exciting and I look forward to the outcome. One question that has not been asked is the initial setup cost. Is this setup an off the shelf purchase or does it require some home fabrication?

all very interesting

Ref set up costs, I'd stay away from the likes of Golden Fuels, Fuel Pod, Goldenray, and all the other similar machines. There are engineers who fabricate the tanks with the cones etc. and supply the basis of a processor to which you'd add a bit of plumbing, a heater and pump or you could get a set up from about £850 (all in a single tank) plus about £430 for your polishing kit (this would be cheaper than the inferior, less safe off-the-shelf systems that don't come with proper polishing that sell for around £1800).

My view would be to buy the tank, do the plumbing yourself (you could copy mine), get your polishing kit and start saving ££££ss. Then after you've had a decent payback, add a straining tank then a separate washer. If a few were interested we could set up a training day at a central location, where we make fuel and at the same time build and wire the processors. There's sufficient skill on here to make this very doable.

 

[Ben]

Nathan can you tell us more about the chemicals that needed to be added to the cleaned & filtered WVO please.

Where do you purchase them from and how much do they cost?

 

[nathanrobo]

Nathan can you tell us more about the chemicals that needed to be added to the cleaned & filtered WVO please.

Where do you purchase them from and how much do they cost?

Hi Ben

After straining the WVO at 400 - 600 micron, you react using virgin Methanol purchased from somebody such as Trinity Chemicals in 205 litre drums (typically works out 50p per litre of meth used at about 16% by volume), which would produce nearly 1300 litres of fuel if you measure out accurately. If you can get mates together to divide an IBC you can buy meth for 35p per litre. Also if you are really cost conscious, you could demeth after separating glycerin and use the reclaimed meth in your second stage. This would save you about £3 in a 180 litre batch.

The lye which is dissolved into the meth to form methoxide is either: KOH (potassium hydroxide flake), NaOh (sodium hydroxide pearl also known as caustic soda) or sodium methylate (which is a liquid). The cost of this is between £28 - £42 per 25kg bag or about £50 for sodium methylate. I recommend KOH because the glycerin it produces can be composted and it's easier to use. 25Kg will last for about 3600 litres of fuel

 

[karl webster]

Right folks.

For anyone interested in making bio. All i can say is wht others have said to me ( If i can do it anyone can) I dont understnd chemistry nor am i bothered about doing. What i do understand is You can make a good fuel out of wvo by doing a chemicle reaction.

Tonight i have done the final stage of the process Ie washing the fuel. I have done this three times by adding water to the top of the tank on the left of nathans photo. Once added turn the pump on whilst the temp is around 70c.Leave for around 30min then allow to settle for a hour. Once settled drop water out untill you get bio. The test for this process is a third of warm clean water in a jar a third bio and shake together.leave to stnd and when the water in the bottom of the jar is clear the fuel is washed and ready for drying. Im leaving it drying for around an hour.


The test to see if the bio is dry is put some bio in a jar and cool in water the leave in the fridge for twenty min. If the bio is clear and you can read newspaer print through it alls good and ready for centrifuge. Ive posted now due to the next to stages being very simple. After my fuel is dry i now have bio diesel.


Im starting the dewater process as we speak so sometime tomorrow or in the evenin i can get the de watered bio into the processor to start the whole process gain.


After a couple of batches this is going to be so simple and the finished fuel owing me 25ppl so smiles all round.

 

[karl webster]

Ps Sorry for all the ( a) s missing in my posts.The key board is on the blink !

 

[sae70]

This is all absolutely fascinating I would love to spend some time looking over the kit and learning from you gurus I'm thinking about getting together with 2 or 3 m8's and sharing the cost and effort of creating this little miracle Would there be an issue with the rules, 2500Ltrs per year with regards to three or four people sharing one set of kit?

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

The regs are concerned with how much each person uses not ownership of the kit it was produced with.

 

[karl webster]

I think its per address. I may be wrong but i think thats how i understood it when i looked into it when i started running on WVO.

Very simple steven and if you dont use alot of fuel and you can take your time making it theres no real issue at all. Once this first lot is done i will do it bit by bit stge by stage when i walk past the processors

 

[nathanrobo]

This is all absolutely fascinating I would love to spend some time looking over the kit and learning from you gurus I'm thinking about getting together with 2 or 3 m8's and sharing the cost and effort of creating this little miracle Would there be an issue with the rules, 2500Ltrs per year with regards to three or four people sharing one set of kit?

Under the rules you are allowed 2500 litres per year for each address, club or co-operative. I suspect that the only way of legitimate way of getting around it would be to share the costs, keep the kit mobile and sell it to one another for £1 each time you move it from one address to the next.

It's best to play it safe, build a processor per address (club together for chems, buying parts to build your processors etc.) keep your paperwork straight and produce 2500 litres or less.

 

[sae70]

How very interesting I like the idea of a co-operative owning the kit and sharing the cost of the chemicals Each member of the co- operative could then be responsible for sourcing their own WVO, allowing the co-operative first refusal of any excess and then being responsible for making as much Bio as one would require for ones own needs. Between my two vehicles I only do about 7000miles per year in my VW at an average of about 37mpg and 4000miles per year in the Cruiser at an average of about 22mpg (guessing). I'm paying 137.9 round my way currently for Diesel, so I should be able to save £1600 a year even with my low use Loving it So when's the get together going to be then?

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

Have they changed the rules then because it used to be a 2500l personal allowance i.e. per person, no mention of co-ops and such like?