Member converts to Bio-diesel

[nathanrobo]

I'm paying 137.9 round my way currently for Diesel, so I should be able to save £1600 a year even with my low use Loving it So when's the get together going to be then?

Get together will depend on level of interest -

 

[nathanrobo]

Have they changed the rules then because it used to be a 2500l personal allowance i.e. per person, no mention of co-ops and such like?

Jon,

I think HMRC got all of the usual grey areas hammered down over time... Here's a link to biopowered Wiki on the subject:

http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/HMRC_and_2500_Litre_Duty_Free_Allowance

btw guys, there are various forums / resources for bio, but Biopowered wiki seems to be a sensible & civilised forum, where experimentation has flourished and produced great results -

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

Interesting, they definitely called it a personal allowance when they wrote to me years ago to say I didn't need to be a registered producer any more, must have dawned on them since then how easily that could be abused

It's a very interesting subject but all the messing about trying to get the wvo plus how long it would take to break even on capital outlay means I'm just a lurker on this

 

[karl webster]

I have hovered on the outside for two years now Jon due to the time involoved. Once im up and running and know what im doing it will defo work for me.

 

[nathanrobo]

Interesting, they definitely called it a personal allowance when they wrote to me years ago to say I didn't need to be a registered producer any more, must have dawned on them since then how easily that could be abused
this

You still don't need to be registered, not since they made the 2500 duty free allowance. But if for some reason you got checked out and it you were making 7500 litres between 3 different households as a club or co-op 5k litres would be duty payable.

With regards to the collections, I head out two or 3 times a month. I use 60 litre clamp lid drums for collections - so it doesn't feel like much of a hassle. That being said, my oil is currently going to a mate across town. I've enough fuel to last until spring

 

[majic79]

It's a bit annoying - my Mum wants 50L per week for her car, my Dad wants the same for his, and as they are individuals, we were hoping that each of them could individually produce 2500 litres in one processor and burn it in their cars. I was going to help get them setup and use their processor to produce another 2500L of fuel, combining our individual 2500L limits (and keeping logs of who's using what as well as who's producing what) to satisfy HMRC

I'm lazy, and I'd rather setup a system as automated as possible where waste is loaded into a container, and maybe an initial test is done to build up the methox mix, and then press the go button and it does it all for you (total man hours involved, 1 hour, not including the gathering of WVO). As my parents cars are common rail, I want whatever is produced to meet or exceed the minimum spec for forecourt diesel (my parents cars are covered under warranty, so I'm boning up on my specs, I do understand basic chemistry and I reckon some quality control tests can be done periodically to ensure that it doesn't impact on those warranties)

 

[nathanrobo]

Not sure how you'd get around the 2500 litres for one household.

Automation can be done at various levels with a PID, and control panel to heat to specific temp and switch a pump on and off - that's easy. More automation requires an expert such as yourself.

As it is, there's not a great deal of time involved in the process, it's just the time that elapses between parts of the process. For example to react the fuel, you turn the heater on and wait until it reaches 60 - 70 deg, then siphon (non-electrical or atexed pump) x number of litres of meth into your mixing tank, weigh out x grams of KOH, pour into meth & mix for a minute or so, allow the machine to suck it in (5 mins), and leave it mixing for 90 mins. Then you stop the pump allow to settle for 45 mins and run off the glycerin, take a sample of partly reacted fuel for a 10/90 drop out test. From which you determine the amount of KOH for the 2nd stage, mix it and leave to run for a further hour or so. Separate glycerin check for a full reaction and you have bio. So far maybe 20 minutes of activity plus waiting time. Now if you are at home getting on with other stuff, it's just 20 minutes.

Water washing and drying may absorb another 20 minutes and polishing another 5, plus the waiting time. But if you could allow automation to heat to a specific temp, pull in methoxide, then switch a pump for a specific period of time and shut off. You would save interactions. With water washing, you could automate to pull in a specific volume of water, say 10 litres, then run the pump for 15 mins, then shut off and heat for 45 mins. Again that would save interaction.

Your earlier suggestions with regards to automation would be great if doable and hold the promise of pour your oil in one end and fill your car out of the other. Of course you'd be welcome to test your ideas on my machine and share the results on here. There is a firm in the U.S. who fully automate their machine called springboard biodiesel.

 

[karl webster]

Well,there we have a sample of my finished bio. I know that could go into my truck now but I also know that its better to centrifuge and polish. Really from what i have ran in the past this as it is would be far better already. Doing the final stge will make it perfect. Im really happy with the end result and i would never have thought i could have managed it.

 

[karl webster]

Better that way up

 

[Graham]

This is looking very promising.

I think for many, it may be the size of the 3 vessels.
Although, I have read that you can actually do away with the far left, and the far right, and just keep the center one.
However, by just using the center on it is a bit more messing around.
Could the 3 vessels still be utilised, but shrunk?
Could every thing be made smaller?
Could the 3 vessels still be used, but at say, use 3 off 50 liter vessels?
Or if one wants to go down to 2 vessels, which one can be most easily dispensed with?
.




For example, could just 2 off 50 liter vessels be used, above each other, with smaller pumps etc, all mounted under the bottom of the lower tank?

Gra.

 

[nathanrobo]

This is looking very promising.

I think for many, it may be the size of the 3 vessels.
Although, I have read that you can actually do away with the far left, and the far right, and just keep the center one.
However, by just using the center on it is a bit more messing around.
Could the 3 vessels still be utilised, but shrunk?
Could every thing be made smaller?
Could the 3 vessels still be used, but at say, use 3 off 50 liter vessels?
Or if one wants to go down to 2 vessels, which one can be most easily dispensed with?


For example, could just 2 off 50 liter vessels be used, above each other, with smaller pumps etc, all mounted under the bottom of the lower tank?

Gra.

Graham

The short answer is yes, yes & yes. Most use just one tank... in fact there's a simple design that would allow the best of the GL Eco design, but still allow to water wash and spraybar dry. The single tank design would have a removable clamp lid for loading (pouring in oil via a drum sized strainer) and drying, but importantly would seal during the reaction and stay sealed until pump washing is complete. If you were constructing out of a smaller vessel than 45 gallon drum, you'd construct a lid that seals with a silicon and maybe ford capri bonnet straps

I've done three tanks because I like to save up my oil and then do three batches one after another and the three tanks work well for this. But if you wanted to make 180 litres every month say then a single tank would be an easy way to go or if you wanted to do 50 litres every week, that would be fine.

 

[nathanrobo]

btw Karl, Well done, the bio looks great. Don't forget to add cetane booster. 1000ppm or 1ml per litre (use the glass syringe).

 

[nathanrobo]

Bought a 205 litre steel drum yesterday. I'll get a 24 litre cone welded on and play around with an all in one design over the next month or so. When it's done, we could play pass the parcel, anyone wanting to build their own could collect it, copy it and either pass it on or bring it back.

 

[Graham]

Bought a 205 litre steel drum yesterday. I'll get a 24 litre cone welded on and play around with an all in one design over the next month or so. When it's done, we could play pass the parcel, anyone wanting to build their own could collect it, copy it and either pass it on or bring it back.

.
This sounds excellent

Gra.

 

[karl webster]

Well the whole reason for finally going to bio was the fact i brought the 24v truck and for obvious reasons i didnt want to run on SVO so tomorrow will be my first day running on my own fuel.

 

[karl webster]

The 80 ran a dream today. No difference with starting, smoke or anything else. It had a slight cooking oil tinge to it. Well happy.

Doing my second batch now. Just mixed the meth in. Once this batch is done i can steady up.Just wanted to get a batch infront.

 

[Graham]

Great to hear Karl,
Is the viscosity almost the same as bought diesel from the pumps?

Gra.

 

[karl webster]

Cant tell any difference Graham apart from the colour and the smell it has. Just reacting second stage now. Left it late starting another hour then let it stand untill morning to drop the glis off.

 

[Graham]

It will be interesting if Nathanrobo finds a way to incorporate all into a single, or smaller set up.
If I went along the bio route, which does sound good, then I would probably be short of space, I think.

Gra.

 

[nathanrobo]

Graham,

It's easily done. Gonna get a coned drum and make one in January!