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Blasphemy Corner --If You Couldn't Have a Land Cruiser?

AdventureWagon

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The only things about the Grenadier that scare me is the cost and the BMW engine. Only euro we've owned was an 8 valve 1200 cc Corsa B!
 

hopeless wanderer

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I know.. I've not driven her in so long and I'm going to be in the UK for a few months so I'm teetering on the brink of selling. Last time I personally drove was July 2020.
Hopefully i can pass it to my nephew with a buy back clause. Or what i suspect will happen and hope thats the case is i drive her for a couple of months and come to my senses.
 

hopeless wanderer

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I think i drive 1000 miles a year in it. My nephew drives it once a month on a long run to keep her sweet. Maybe going to be staycationing in late summer so maybe it'll inspire me to keep her.
The 4x4 bus is turning into a money pit in that I'm going for a pretty high spec fit out and a full mechanical overhaul. engines been out and injectors and pump rebuilt. Pretty much everything replaced that can wear. the same on the running gear and brakes. I've got a spreadsheet and the total is beginning to resemble a phone number :-(
 

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stuzbot

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Well if looking slightly into the future if I couldn’t have a LC then the up and coming Grenadier would be the top of my list. A true working vehicle and dare I say it maybe better than a 70 Series in some respects.

I've been reading and watching a few 'opinions' on the Grenadier recently. It certainly looks the part and, on paper, the drivetrain setup looks pretty old school proper 4x4. This guy brings up some interesting alarm bells about it though. Mainly to do with the fact that any 4x4 produced nowadays is going to have to have an overly complex and electronically managed engine --just to meet emissions standards. Hence rendering them all 'not bush-fixable'.

 

Higgy

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Proper Northern Explanation....... Not sure why he kept saying, "I dont Know"........ I think he knows full well what he Knows... :wtf:
 
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Grimbo

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Videos of Grenadier off road show very little flex and lifting a wheel all the time almost in IFS fashion.... that means it's going to be like the new Defender and rely heavily on traction control to have any ability in tough stuff , hopefully the traction control will be more reactive than the Defender ...they actually spin the wheels and hesitate .... not what you want if you're trying not to damage soil structure in sensitive area's ....
 

stuzbot

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Videos of Grenadier off road....

Are you sure they were videos of an actual Grenadier? I only ask because I was watching a clip from one of their promo vids the other day and it was only after a few minutes that I realised the footage of the Grenadier trekking through the countryside was actually CGI.
 

Lancashire Cruiser

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It’s a good point about vehicle complexity and the ability to repair something when off grid. The latest video I saw on the Grenadier mentioned that they have tried to keep it as simple as possible, what this actually means I guess we will have to wait until it’s launched. The new Defender has 80 odd ECU’s apparently which would worry me if I was heading into the bush or across Africa. Im not sure what level of electrical complexity is in the current 70 Series available in Australia, it would be interesting to do a comparison with the Grenadier as Ineos are targeting Australia as a market for them.
 

RBG21

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Videos of Grenadier off road show very little flex and lifting a wheel all the time almost in IFS fashion.... that means it's going to be like the new Defender and rely heavily on traction control to have any ability in tough stuff , hopefully the traction control will be more reactive than the Defender ...they actually spin the wheels and hesitate .... not what you want if you're trying not to damage soil structure in sensitive area's ....
Does the new Defender not have locking diffs at all?.
I admit I don’t know very much about it, far too new and expensive for me to have much interest in, just find it weird that Land Rover wouldn’t have them in something marketed as being a capable off roader.

My 2007 Range Rover has a locking centre and rear diff but you can’t manually lock them, the computer/terrain response system will decide when it wants them to fully lock and take it out of the drivers hands, which I personally don’t agree with but anyway, I’d have thought the new Defender might have a far newer version of something similar?.
 

chapel gate

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i bet most new vehicles are not far off 80 ECUs.
the 80 has a few, but you can smash them up with a lump hammer and it will still drive.
 

Jacob100

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Range Rover Salesman: Still, if you want to go off-road off course, that’s child’s play as well. Previous models would have had a differential lock. That’s all taken care of now. A thing of the past.
Alan: Well… still got a differential lock.
Range Rover Salesman: No, it’s automatic these days.
Alan: Well… But it’s still got a diff lock.
Range Rover Salesman: I’m saying that it doesn’t have the lever any more.
Alan: Yeah, well, it may not have the lever but it’s still got a differential lock. It’s just deployed electronically.
Range Rover Salesman: Whereas it used to be manual.
Alan: Yeah, manual or automatic, this car has got a differential lock.

Alan (Voiceover): I later discovered this car does not have a differential lock, but actually uses a traction control system where a spinning wheel is braked by an on-board computer, so effectively we were both right.
 

GeekOKent

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The grenadier does look nice. Will need to see what it actually turns out to be, but by way of on-paper they seem to be saying all the right things.

The thing to look at also is that there isn't much Bush left in the world. So this may not be a huge concern unless you are heading off to the road of bones.

And the fact that they are using existing off the shelf components is also a good thing. No one will want to buy a car off a company to do serious stuff, with a zero vendor network.

I feel it's going to be a while before we see serious travel in one of these, as mass market as the cruisers are today (and the pickups are going to be tomorrow ). At which point it almost feels like carbon fuel will be penalised far too much anyway.

In the mean time, definitely keen to see what they product. Already 2 years behind time, worth noting.
 

Lancashire Cruiser

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Watching a recent video of a LRW guy having a good poke around a prototype Grenadier at the Goodwood FoS, his take on it was that it was very impressive. There are still some things to iron out before launch but all in all this could be something to take on the 70 Series. Also it’s only got 35 ECU’s which is probably about the norm or less for a modern large off road vehicle. As mentioned the new Defender has over 80 ECU’s!
 

chapel gate

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"only" got 35 ECUs?? :D

i dont think it matters if a vehicle has a 1000 tbh. its how many, should one fail, renders the vehicle undrivable.
 

Grimbo

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I don't think Ineos even in their wildest dreams think their Defender looky likey will ever challenge a 70 or 79 series in anything other than possibly price ....
It is about as far removed in strength and build quality as it's possible to be.... yes it's four wheel drive ...the comparison stops there .
 

Lancashire Cruiser

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Ineos see Australia as a market for the Grenadier and was their comments about the 70 series.
Grimbo , what evidence do you have that the Grenadier would not have the strength and build quality of a 70/79 Series? I’m not doubting you as the 70/79 Series are very tough trucks but I don’t think that this have been proven.
 

Bob

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I would see the fact that they've been talking about it for years now, and we have yet to see it hit properly, along with the history of small niche auto makers being one of utter reliability, high build quality and easy access to parts and..... no.. no its the opposite of all those things almost without exception.
 
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