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goodoldboy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2010
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The local deer population has increased dramatically here in the last few years & are starting to cause noticeable damage to saplings in parts of my woodland.On the plus side venison is tasty so what caliber should i go for? .22 ? .308 ? rimfire or center ? the terrain is fairly dense woodland with steep slopes crossed by canyons - im thinking of building a hide by the water but also we have some fairly open parts so scope or open sights?
 
Well the species will dictate the calibre / cartridge configuration. If it's roe only then you can use a .22 bullet, but it's not really what I'd recommend. Yes, .222, .223 and 22-250 will knock over roe easily, they are in essence varmint cartridges. This question has as many answers as there are cartridges to be honest. But on roe, I'd go with a .243 and be done with it. If you have red, fallow or sika then yes, the .243 is legal and WILL do the job, but something slightly bigger would be my choice. I don't like .308. It's just not flat shooting enough for me, but if you only ever shoot at 100 yards from a high seat then it's fine. 7mm-08 is slightly flatter. 25-06 is a darn good round too. Fast flat and will knock anything over. I have taken roe at over 300 yards and it knocked them over. But if I had my pick for the sort of terrain you mention, I would get a 7mm Rem Mag. But then I have all of those calibers and some more I didn't mention. I like to be prepared.

Open sights is for real heroes. Buy a decent scope. Don't mess about.

Obviously you'll need a Firearms Certificate. If it's your woodland then you have your own 'permission' to shoot them. So that's that sorted. If you need a hand let me know!!!

Chris
 
And if you have any venison going let me know (insert drool icon)
 
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I have a new piece of land up in Scotland which is bouncing. Once I get up on there Warren you can have a whole carcass!

Chris
 
WOW Cris you have a lot of guns,do you do game shooting to i.e. phes ,partrige,duck as well as stalking :icon-cool:
 
Pete, I'll do rabbit and vermin stuff, but never been bothered about feathered game really. Don't mind anything wild like duck but stuff raised in a pen that needs to be encouraged to run away so that I can shoot it has never struck me.

Shoot clays too, used to do a lot of pistol shooting. Now just trying to get into practical shotgun seeing as I have an 11 shot pump action.

Got air rifle too, but it's stalking that I really love.

Chris
 
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spot on Cris me to- ive been in game syndicates since leaving school in 1985 but like wildfowling best ,inland duck and geese ,also enjoy lamping but dont have FAC so go with a mate this morning at 9.30 i was at my workshop and stop for a cuppa about 40 greylags landed in the field 50 yards from me ,i was shootin them with my finger:icon-biggrin::icon-biggrin:
 
Oooh yes, I like a bit of lamp action. Have a special tool for that.

Mind that finger! Ha Ha.

C
 
hi chris
i was thinking of getting a 308 for hunting in SA. i would like to hear more about why you dont like this caliber as i was told this is very good for hunting the larger type game. i was also looking at a 30.06 i think thats correct. what would you suggest for over there.
 
to the OP: Centrefire .223 (5.56) would do most of the work - handy US size as well (M16). I'm thinking .243 myself as it'll do just about everything. I'm not that experienced though, I'm just getting into the world of firearms (long time air-gunner taking the leap) and want to get my DSC1 before going out hunting some local roes
 
5.56 not legal on Red, Sika or fallow. .240 as a bullet calibre is the smallest you can use and 100 gr bullet. (it's different laws in England and Scotland by the way on some of this stuff) so realistically .243 is the typical entry rifle in the UK for all species.

I don't liek .308 Winchester because if its trajectory. It's a fantastically predictable trajectory and superbly accurate - if you know where to aim. The only deer I have ever missed have been with .308 It drops a good bit more than most other rounds.

This could turn into a long thread. Look, energy is the most important thing. This is what kills the deer. Just about every round you can buy will do this (the legal ones I mean) and have loads in reserve. There is a great You Tube link where they take a .22 rim fire out to over 400 yards and it still goes though a half inch of ply and a toasting joint. OK it took them all day to hit the target at that range, but this illustrates my point. They'll all kill, but what you want is point and shoot. If you only shoot over quite short distances then trajectory doesn't matter. Point and shoot. But when your land is very open (err, Africa?) and you are taking long shots then you have to start accounting for the drop. On a roe deer the drop of the bullet can be roughly the same as the height of the chest cavity. You aim in the middle and the bullet will hit the ground not the deer. Please just a note to any closet firearms experts out there, this is a simple explanation to a simple question. So if you want to get into a discussion over ballistics, bog off and have it somewhere else. There's always a smart alec. Now, ALL bullets drop, it's gravity, but you can effectively cheat this by setting the sights slightly high. As you don't generally shoot stuff 10 feet away, you point the bullet up so that it passes through a theoretical zero point (looking down your barrel) at around 180 yards. This is called blank point range. No, not point blank. Blank point. Now when you shoot at more distant targets, say 300 yards, you only have to make up the drop of 120 yards - get it? Now, the curve of the bullet isn't an even arc, it's a parabola. So the bullet drops more and more and more over distance. The .308 typically doesn't fly very efficiently and whilst predictable does drop like a stone. It's ballistic coefficient is about the same as a caravan. And as it's not a very big case, you can't counter that by firing it very fast. I shoot a .300 Win Mag and that uses the same bullet but punts it out much faster, thereby cheating some of that drop. It's fast, flat and hard hitting.

So you can have a small bullet going fast, large bullet going slow or large bullet going fast. Energy is mass x velocity. But it's not energy that's the issue. There is always enough. It's the drop cheating velocity that you are after. Some use a lighter bullet in .308 - I do. This get the speed up which is good actually. But then all you are doing is replicating other cartridges that already do this. For Africa, well firstly what are you going to shoot at? That dictates what you buy I'm afraid and can you actually get it over there to start with? In the main you can but it's all about airlines and customs. Easier to borrow one out there. If it's anything half decent, you will be looking at something like .300 Win as entry calibre and moving onto something like .375 H&H - which you will struggle to get in the UK especially if you are new. I don't think they'd let you shoot much with .308 win. Small antelope maybe. But Khudu, Impala, any kind of Bok? I doubt it.

Chris
 
I'm guessing goodoldboy is not uk based (really is just a guess) and the AR-15 is common in the US and as you say, has the energy to kill and a fairly flat trajectory. I agree, uk based hunting and you should use something bigger.

Would have thought a .30-06 might be good as well, but there's lots of options - I guess money comes into it as well. I was going to suggest a .357 lever action as well as cowboy guns are cool.

The other thing about the AR-15 is the mods out there - .50 beowulf?

Edit: according to BASC for muntjac and chinese water deer .220 or larger required, 50 grains and 1000 ftlb
 
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Like I said, .22 centre fire is not legal for larger species. .22 centre fire is essentially .224 nominal which covers Munties and CWD

.357 is not legal for deer. It doesn't make the muzzle energy requirements. .44 Mag can just scrape in if you are lucky and can prove MV. .444 Marlin does make it for wild boar. And 45-70 too I think if you want toy guns to play with. If you want to shoot in many EU countries there are restrictions on using military calibres, so .308 (7.62) and 223 (5.56) are not allowed.

If you want an all round nice calibre for the UK then 25-06 is a good one. Uhh, yes I do have one. I was answering Stumog's points really. What they do in America is their concern. As long as I am standing behind them ...30-06 tremendously popular out there.

I have been doing this for a good many years, have DSC II and I am registered Fit and Competent with SNH. Past chair and secretary of the areas oldest gun club. I am also a qualified RCO. So I ain't talking outta my ass.

Chris
 
Hi Chris
Tried to shoot a rat the other day with my rifle and tely sights. The rat was 12ft away outside the kitchen window which I quietly opened. Got him in the cross hairs and fired. Big noise of shattering china. The end of the barrel, which I could not see through the sites, was inside one of my wifes' best display coffee cups which......had been........sitting on the window sill.

Frank
 
Hi Chris
Tried to shoot a rat the other day with my rifle and tely sights. The rat was 12ft away outside the kitchen window which I quietly opened. Got him in the cross hairs and fired. Big noise of shattering china. The end of the barrel, which I could not see through the sites, was inside one of my wifes' best display coffee cups which......had been........sitting on the window sill.

Frank

Been there done that, but in my case I put a pellet through the new aluminium double glazing frame below the window I had carefully opened. :doh:
 
hi chris
i was thinking of getting a 308 for hunting in SA. i would like to hear more about why you dont like this caliber as i was told this is very good for hunting the larger type game. i was also looking at a 30.06 i think thats correct. what would you suggest for over there.
Stumog - nothing wrong with those calibres for Africa, particularly bushveld shooting, which is generally short range stuff (80-150m) The vast majority of game in SA is shot with those 2 calibres. The relatively heavy, slow bullets mean minimal meat damage and bullet construction isn't such an issue, as it is with the faster calibres Chris refers to. The 308 is popular because of ammo availability and cost, being the same as the NATO 7.62 round.
Remember African game is generally bigger and tougher than the European game and we tend to focus more on bullet construction than out and out calibre.

If you're shooting plains game, then you're looking for a faster round, such as the 300 H&H or win mag if you want to stick with 30 calibres, or a 7mm rem mag is another good choice. The bigger stuff like 375s are overkill on any non-dangerous game - mostly overkill from the shooter's perspective because they kick hard!
Shooting is like fishing - you can use one gun/rod for everything but if you want the best tool for the job, then you need to match the tool to the specific application.

As Chris said, there have been countless books written on the subject and there are many more variables to consider that haven't been raised here.
 
Hey Andrew, you're still with us. That's good. Yes, I agree with that - oh and I have a 7mm rem mag too. Love it. but I think, to reiterate, all of those rounds will kill just about anything that walks, there was a famous elephant shooter who used .243 - but my point was about trajectory. If you have time and know the distance to the watering hole you can adjust, but when you are in a position, sneaking about on a moor perhaps with failing light looking for that elusive stag, judging distance can be very very difficult. In a case like that (not uncommon to me) I'd rather have something that shoots flatter. Then there is one less element of doubt in the equation. Break out the 7 mm!

.375 kick hard? Come on, man up Andrew.

Chris
 
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