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Elecronic Diesel Tuning Devices

CAT

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From looking at that website it seems the injectors are tweaked to allow a higher flow of fuel. So I would conclude that the injectors Kaiapoi have lined up for me are paired up for the mechanical pump?

Ultimately when I get these mods installed I want to get it into a shop to tune it as I can't expect to get the most out of these mods without the help of a professional.
 

Shayne

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Pro help isn't an option for me because i can't find any .

I do want the upgrade injectors but my fear is they will need more air than i can put into the mix which would explain them offering me the boost box thing which nearly doubles the price .

Could be too much of a good thing !
 

Shayne

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I spoke to united diesel in the UK about refurbishing and doubling the output , they were willing to take a look but didn't sound hopeful . I figured the average factory boost is 7psi so having doubled that doubling the fuel to match might work well .

Will never know now i suppose .
 

Beau

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Although the factory boost is 7psi, the ECU is mapped to handle 14PSI max, hence why once you cross this point the ECU puts the engine in limp mode as to not cause any harm. This means the fuel output of the injector pump,as well as flow rate of the injectors ect ,can cope up to this point.

Your best bet if you really want to go down the route of more power is a mechanical pump. You can then pretty much ditch the ECU, run as much boost as you like and fine tune the engine. Even with standard injectors, the mechanical pump can easily support near 20 psi worth of boost. You will really need to tune the pump well though in order to run as low EGT's as possible, whilst getting the most out of the turbo and injector pump. Your next major obstacle you'll run into afterwards will just be the poor flow these heads have to offer. This is why some guys build up a 1KD head, with mechanical pump and injectors to get the best possible solution.
 

Shayne

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I'm truly dubious of adding a lot more power Beau which makes the prices seem high especially as i feel it might end up being a hindrance to daily use .

For example i was following a couple of 80's up the side of a steep mountain on tarmac and as you can imagine the road folded on itself in a constant series of hairpin turns . While they trundled on at a slow and steady pace my truck didn't know it was on a hill so i had to keep flicking back and forth between 1st and 2nd to keep pace (stay behind) which is not good for the clutch (i will say nothing about trying to kick the ass end out on hairpins:eusa-whistle:) , eventually i opted for 3rd gear tickover with the centre locked which is not good for anything .

The same thing happens off road i want the low box to slow things down but locking the centre is a hindrance to handling , so whats adding another 20 or 30 hp going to do ?

The theory i have bouncing around in my noggin though i can find no reference to support it is - if the injectors were more generous the pump wouldn't have to work as hard as we could turn down the fuel to its lean factory setting without losing power .

I dunno just making life difficult for myself again i guess , i have convinced myself that i need the injectors renewed if i want my truck to do another 100k miles which led me to finding "injector tuning" :icon-cool:
 

CAT

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Apologies for a bit of a thread hijack, I am just wondering Shayne, did you get the K&N air filter that sits in the original filter housing or an open filter in the engine bay? Cheers mate.
 
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CAT

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Although the factory boost is 7psi, the ECU is mapped to handle 14PSI max, hence why once you cross this point the ECU puts the engine in limp mode as to not cause any harm. This means the fuel output of the injector pump,as well as flow rate of the injectors ect ,can cope up to this point.

Your best bet if you really want to go down the route of more power is a mechanical pump. You can then pretty much ditch the ECU, run as much boost as you like and fine tune the engine. Even with standard injectors, the mechanical pump can easily support near 20 psi worth of boost. You will really need to tune the pump well though in order to run as low EGT's as possible, whilst getting the most out of the turbo and injector pump. Your next major obstacle you'll run into afterwards will just be the poor flow these heads have to offer. This is why some guys build up a 1KD head, with mechanical pump and injectors to get the best possible solution.

Just on building a 1KD head Beau, when you say poor flow from the 1KZ head do you mean poor flow equals increased heat? Also, what causes poor flow in a 1KZ in comparison to a 1KD? Cheers.
 

Shayne

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Apologies for a bit of a thread hijack, I am just wondering Shayne, did you get the K&N air filter that sits in the original filter housing or an open filter in the engine bay? Cheers mate.

I did and because its sat in the kitchen drying after a wash i can tell you it has B075B12 written on it which i would guess is the part number .
 
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Beau

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Shayne, the thing is the though the injector pump and injectors work hand in hand and are tuned to work with one another, of course with some tolerance. If we say "tune" the injector to allow for more fuel to pass by, the injector pump & ecu aren't aware and can't really adjust for the newly tuned injector. I've not yet read these injectors being a bottle neck when pushing for fuel and being with mechanical pumps seem to get away with dumping loads of fuel in for power. The NZ pumps however, (I think) are modified internally for more flow.

CAT - By poor flow, I mean the overall design in getting air into the cylinder. And yes, poor flow will lead to higher temps overall because the turbo has to work harder to push that air into the cylinder. Not sure on the exact differences, but the 1KD head is 4 valves per cylinder so on a volumetric comparison, I am certain the head is deigned better, for flow, both into the engine and out. I'm sure toyota took overall temperatures more into consideration with the 1KD head design, as I've not heard of them failing (yet).
 
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Shayne

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How is our fuel measured though ?

As far as i can work out it isn't (i'm happy to be corrected) , as far as i can tell pump pressure is timed and only a spring opens and closes the injector (pic compliments of Fridayman)
12115dab-471f-49df-ada6-aa344244ba5e_zps08c5c8b1.jpg


So our method of turning up the fuel turns up the pressure opening the injector a fraction earlier and perhaps closing them a fraction later , hence your runaway engine the pressure was so great the injectors couldn't shut .

As you say these are very tolerant motors with a wide scope for irregularities , I'm convinced there is an advantage to be manipulated out of this but it evades me as yet .
 

Shayne

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:idea:

and the answer that evades me is exactly what kaiapoirepowers in NZ must have worked out before me .

If you increase fuel with injector modification the boost resistor trick telling the ecu your only getting 14psi won't make you run lean . When its adding what it thinks is enough fuel for 14psi its actually adding enough for maybe 21psi depending on how much more the injector is set to give .
 

Beau

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Ok, so on the Injector side we have the spring and what's known as "opening pressure". So the pump has to put out this amount of pressure to just open the injector. However, it pressures the quanitity of fuel alongside this to inject the correct amount. For example at tickover the injectors are still running at there open pressure, but the injector pump (spill and timing valve) work hand in hand to only put out a small amount of volume relative to the pressure. In simple terms, it's still a lot of fuel pushed out to open the injector but only a small amount of fuel works its way through the injector before the line pressure drops and the injector closes. At higher RPM's, a higher volume of fuel is pushed out allowing a larger injector spray time to occur and more fuel gets dumped.

I believe our method of turning up fuel allows a slightly longer fuel injector stroke which allows slightly more fuel through, therefore more fuel making it's way into the engine. Injector pump pressure will somewhat be linear to RPM.

Those guys who run that boost trick, aren't they using mechanical pumps though?
 

Shayne

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Your explanation is better than mine but we are both saying the same thing and "linear to rpm" is what i'm seeing beyond max boost .

The pressure must be constant and timing is what is electronically controlled throughout the rev range . The ecu cannot measure the volume of fuel it puts in so a bigger injector could allow say for arguments sake 2 units of fuel instead of the 1 unit Toyota intended .

That would mean (staying with doubles for simplicity) when the ecu seen 7 psi of boost it would allow enough fuel for 14psi of boost and at 14 enough for 28 , as far as the ecu is concerned its still within it's parameters with the boost trick fitted , it will add fuel linear to rpm right through the boost range . Might make some smoke at idle though ?

I would guess the mechanical pump guys fit the boost trick just to keep the ecu happy ?
 

CAT

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I did and because its sat in the kitchen drying after a wash i can tell you it has B075B12 written on it which i would guess is the part number .

Ok so you have taken away, or made redundant the circular filter housing then? K&N do a circular filter for the 1kzte that fits into the housing. What made you go for your current one?
 

CAT

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:idea:

and the answer that evades me is exactly what kaiapoirepowers in NZ must have worked out before me .

If you increase fuel with injector modification the boost resistor trick telling the ecu your only getting 14psi won't make you run lean . When its adding what it thinks is enough fuel for 14psi its actually adding enough for maybe 21psi depending on how much more the injector is set to give .

Honestly Shayne these guys know the 1kzte engine side out.
 

Shayne

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Ok so you have taken away, or made redundant the circular filter housing then? K&N do a circular filter for the 1kzte that fits into the housing. What made you go for your current one?

The filter i have is just a direct replacement for Toyota's own as in open the box pull the old filter and pop the new K&N in job done . I honestly can't remember the why's of it but it followed the 3" turboback exhaust which allowed the engine to breathe so much more easily .
 
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Beau

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ahhh, but the ECU can measure the volume of fuel going into the cylinder and through the injector. It's actually quite advance electronically for it's time and does a good job at it. Not to mention how it advances timing at higher rpm for better power (something your mechanical pump can't do). I believe those guys modify those injectors to allow more fuel flow/volume but it works alongside the injector pump (whether it be mechanical or electronic) to handle more fuel.

A mechanical pump would not need any boost sensor trick. In fact it wont need the sensor at all, other than to not throw a check engine. At that point you can pretty much run without the ECU (once you have a manual box). You can boost over 14psi with a mechanical pump without any issue as the pump has the capability to match boost levels much higher than your standard electronic pump configuration.
 

Shayne

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My thinking is the ecu controls fuel volume via timed pressure spikes so a bigger hole in the injector will deliver more fuel without altering pump pressure with standard variable timing ?
 

Shayne

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Think of it this way - if a bigger injector could double the fuel and the boost box could half whatever boost signal gets sent to the ecu , without altering the pump at all what would you get
 

Beau

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The pump will provide the injectors the fuel matched at any given RPM and boost point. If that's a true 10psi, but the box tricks the ECU thinking it's 5psi, then it'll provide for 5psi. But this is just going to produce a ton of smoke because the mixture will be too rich.
 
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