brake pads and size

G

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Guest
Hi Guys
My brake discs are the smaller pre 93 discs and as such I have always
thought that the slightly larger later discs for the 80 series would give
extra stopping ability.
But now I'm confused and need some advice.
I just bought a set of pads for my cruiser and they fit 80 series cruisers
from 1/90 up.
So if the pads are all the same size no matter what year , how do the larger
discs make any difference at all.
cheers
john92HDJ801HDT
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I think the simple explanation is that the larger discs have digger
surface area so the don't get as hot as the smaller ones, therefore
the pads have a better grip on the disc for longer. I stand open to
correction on that, thats just always been my understanding. Even with
bigger calipers its a similar theory. Bigger pad means bigger clamping
force and also less heat because of the bigger surface of the pad.
On 11/6/09, john <[Email address removed]> wrote:
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It is a common misconception that bigger discs and pads means bigger clamping force- they don't. The only way to improve clamping force is to change the master and slave cylinders to create more power in the system. Bigger pads and discs are far better at dissipating heat=2C last longer (as there is more physical friction area=2C the pads are worn down slower)=2C and can allow more progressive brake feel.
There may be an improvement in braking efficiency because the brakes are pushed further out from the centre of the rotating mass- ie the brakes have greater leverage.
> Date: Fri=2C 6 Nov 2009 10:22:25 +0000
> Subject: Re: [ELCO] brake pads and size
> From: [Email address removed]
> To: [Email address removed]
>
> I think the simple explanation is that the larger discs have digger
> surface area so the don't get as hot as the smaller ones=2C therefore
> the pads have a better grip on the disc for longer. I stand open to
> correction on that=2C thats just always been my understanding. Even with
> bigger calipers its a similar theory. Bigger pad means bigger clamping
> force and also less heat because of the bigger surface of the pad.
>
> On 11/6/09=2C john <[Email address removed]> wrote:
> > Hi Guys
> > My brake discs are the smaller pre 93 discs and as such I have always
> > thought that the slightly larger later discs for the 80 series would give
> > extra stopping ability.
> > But now I'm confused and need some advice.
> > I just bought a set of pads for my cruiser and they fit 80 series cruisers
> > from 1/90 up.
> > So if the pads are all the same size no matter what year =2C how do the larger
> > discs make any difference at all.
> > cheers
> > john92HDJ801HDT
> >
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> >
>
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Guest
Hi Guys
Thanks for the replies.
Ok so even with the same size pads used, the bigger disc dissipates the heat
slight better so gives better braking force and feel.
Correct me if I am wrong.
I ask because I have a chance to get the larger calipers for my 80, from a
later model and got confused because these calipers still take the same size
pads.
I know I will have to get the larger discs but that will be another day or
month.
And maybe they will be slotted and drilled to further increase brake force
and minimize brake fade.
But I have heard they fill up with all sorts of debris when off roading.
Anyone any experience of this.
cheers
john92HDJ801HDT
----- Original Message -----
From: "brian creevey" <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: [ELCO] brake pads and size
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John
I may be talking through my hat, but...
... does "larger callipers" mean larger diameter pistons within them?
If it does this will indeed give greater clamping force but I think it
will also require a greater volume of brake fluid, ie more pedal travel,
to deliver it. You don't get something for nothing.
I would check that the master cylinder doesn't have to be changed as
well.
Are your brakes really that bad? I find that when mine are working
properly, ie no seized pistons in any of the callipers and fluid
properly bled, then I can lock up the wheels with no problems on a dry
road.
My brakes were lousy prior to its most recent service, but it turned out
that my rear brakes were completely seized up on both sides. It cost
rather a lot for new callipers and disks (they were badly corroded due
to lack of use) :-( but at least it now stops properly again.
Christopher Bell
|
| Hi Guys
| Thanks for the replies.
| Ok so even with the same size pads used, the bigger disc dissipates
the
| heat
| slight better so gives better braking force and feel.
| Correct me if I am wrong.
| I ask because I have a chance to get the larger calipers for my 80,
from a
| later model and got confused because these calipers still take the
same
| size
| pads.
| I know I will have to get the larger discs but that will be another
day or
| month.
| And maybe they will be slotted and drilled to further increase brake
force
| and minimize brake fade.
| But I have heard they fill up with all sorts of debris when off
roading.
| Anyone any experience of this.
| cheers
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Hi Christopher
Now that is a good point and as usual I don't know if the pistons are larger
etc.
I have to be honest I never noticed any difference between the pre 92 and
the post 92 master cylinder, but then I could be so wrong.
I reckon we will have to wait for the more knowledgeable among us to tell
us.
I have always yearned for better braking but mine is not too bad, its just
if I can improve it why not.
Talking about size, its hard not to notice how big some guys discs are.
I mean brake discs, on their shiny big exhaust cars( boy racers).
Their cars are light and I know a little fast but compared to the weight of
the 80 cruiser I always wondered why it does not have much bigger discs.
And also why its not possible to get much larger calipers and discs as an
after market product.
Always wondering.
cheers
john 92HDJ801HDT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Bell" <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 12:45 PM
Subject: RE: [ELCO] brake pads and size
John
I may be talking through my hat, but...
... does "larger callipers" mean larger diameter pistons within them?
If it does this will indeed give greater clamping force but I think it
will also require a greater volume of brake fluid, ie more pedal travel,
to deliver it. You don't get something for nothing.
I would check that the master cylinder doesn't have to be changed as
well.
Are your brakes really that bad? I find that when mine are working
properly, ie no seized pistons in any of the callipers and fluid
properly bled, then I can lock up the wheels with no problems on a dry
road.
My brakes were lousy prior to its most recent service, but it turned out
that my rear brakes were completely seized up on both sides. It cost
rather a lot for new callipers and disks (they were badly corroded due
to lack of use) :-( but at least it now stops properly again.
Christopher Bell
|
| Hi Guys
| Thanks for the replies.
| Ok so even with the same size pads used, the bigger disc dissipates
the
| heat
| slight better so gives better braking force and feel.
| Correct me if I am wrong.
| I ask because I have a chance to get the larger calipers for my 80,
from a
| later model and got confused because these calipers still take the
same
| size
| pads.
| I know I will have to get the larger discs but that will be another
day or
| month.
| And maybe they will be slotted and drilled to further increase brake
force
| and minimize brake fade.
| But I have heard they fill up with all sorts of debris when off
roading.
| Anyone any experience of this.
| cheers
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Guest
John
Brakes have to dissipate energy, and the kinetic energy of a moving body
is given by the equation:
Energy =3D 0.5 * mass * speed squared
So yes, doubling the mass doubles the energy, but doubling the speed
means 4 times the energy.
So fast cars need big brakes! And they are more likely to be using them
more often, so the heat arrives more frequently.
Another aspect of the matter is that the energy comes from the engine in
the first place so, very crudely speaking, the size of the brakes needs
to be related to the power of the engine.
We have "only" 165 bhp which is not a lot by today's standards, although
stopping 3 tons of TLC trundling fast downhill (no engine needed to work
up speed) means that we still need hefty brakes.
CB

| Hi Christopher
| Now that is a good point and as usual I don't know if the pistons are
| larger
| etc.
| I have to be honest I never noticed any difference between the pre 92
and
| the post 92 master cylinder, but then I could be so wrong.
| I reckon we will have to wait for the more knowledgeable among us to
tell
| us.
| I have always yearned for better braking but mine is not too bad, its
just
| if I can improve it why not.
| Talking about size, its hard not to notice how big some guys discs
are.
| I mean brake discs, on their shiny big exhaust cars( boy racers).
| Their cars are light and I know a little fast but compared to the
weight
| of
| the 80 cruiser I always wondered why it does not have much bigger
discs.
| And also why its not possible to get much larger calipers and discs as
an
| after market product.
| Always wondering.
|
| cheers
| john 92HDJ801HDT
| ----- Original Message -----
| From: "Christopher Bell" <[Email address removed]>
| To: <[Email address removed]>
| Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 12:45 PM
| Subject: RE: [ELCO] brake pads and size
|
|
| John
|
| I may be talking through my hat, but...
|
| ... does "larger callipers" mean larger diameter pistons within them?
|
| If it does this will indeed give greater clamping force but I think it
| will also require a greater volume of brake fluid, ie more pedal
travel,
| to deliver it. You don't get something for nothing.
|
| I would check that the master cylinder doesn't have to be changed as
| well.
|
|
| Are your brakes really that bad? I find that when mine are working
| properly, ie no seized pistons in any of the callipers and fluid
| properly bled, then I can lock up the wheels with no problems on a dry
| road.
|
| My brakes were lousy prior to its most recent service, but it turned
out
| that my rear brakes were completely seized up on both sides. It cost
| rather a lot for new callipers and disks (they were badly corroded due
| to lack of use) :-( but at least it now stops properly again.
|
| Christopher Bell
|
| |
| | Hi Guys
| | Thanks for the replies.
| | Ok so even with the same size pads used, the bigger disc dissipates
| the
| | heat
| | slight better so gives better braking force and feel.
| | Correct me if I am wrong.
| | I ask because I have a chance to get the larger calipers for my 80,
| from a
| | later model and got confused because these calipers still take the
| same
| | size
| | pads.
| | I know I will have to get the larger discs but that will be another
| day or
| | month.
| | And maybe they will be slotted and drilled to further increase brake
| force
| | and minimize brake fade.
| | But I have heard they fill up with all sorts of debris when off
| roading.
| | Anyone any experience of this.
| | cheers
| ____________________________________________________________
| Electronic mail messages entering and leaving Arup business
| systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses
|
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| European Land Cruiser Owners Mailing List
| Further Info: http://www.landcruisers.info/
|
|
|
|
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| Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
| Version: 8.5.424 / Virus Database: 270.14.50/2481 - Release Date:
11/04/09
| 19:51:00
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G

Guest

Guest
Just to throw a little extra into the pot.
I have just replaced my front pads with those for a 100 series.
The pad back plates are the same size but there is more pad area.
I was told that this wouldn't improve the braking but the pads will last
longer.
Only about a thousand miles on them so far but fit and work a treat.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "john" <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 10:09 AM
To: <[Email address removed]>
Subject: [ELCO] brake pads and size
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G

Guest

Guest
Hi Guys
I did try getting Toyota to fit 100 series pads on my 80 some years ago and
they said they tried but they would not fit.
But when I think about that now maybe it was not the pads that would not fit
but their uncertainty about what I was telling them that would not fit.
Christopher thanks for the insight, I will have to get you to e-mail me your
various formulas because they seem to just make thinking very logical.
I still think if the cruiser is going at 60mph and a car going at the same
speed, the cruiser should need bigger discs and pads because of the weight
difference.
I hired a Citroen Picasso a few weeks back and I know it was brand new and
everything but god it could stop so sharply with only a little force on the
brake pedal it was amazing in one respect but quite annoying as well.
cheers
john92HDJ801HDT
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Guest
Does anyone know how I get off this mailing list??
On Friday, November 06, 2009, at 03:15PM, "Guns-N-Roses" <[Email address removed]> wrote:
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You can never leave. Some have tried but all have failed. Ha ha ha ha
(evil laugh)
Regards
Graham Naismith
On 6 Nov 2009, at 22:11, [Email address removed] wrote:
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I agree with what has been said prior to me on disc size helping braking re: the fact it's all about leverage=2C the common example being the use of a smaller vs. larger breaker bar when trying to level some object. A larger brake disc is like having a larger breaker bar. It must be said however that most people underestimate the huge difference brake pads make to stopping distances. Common brands like EBC in my experience=2C are no better than std manufacturer pads=2C irrespective of the colour choice one could make. The other element most people forget about re: stopping distances is the importance of quality brake fluid. Again=2C quality here counts. Quality brake pads and brake fluid will make more difference to consistant good stopping than changing to larger dics. Discs and pads need heat to work=2C but if the fluid and pads can't cope with that heat then you'll still have poor braking power and distances.

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G

Guest

Guest
Hi Guys
Again thanks for the replies.
Does any one know what the thermal value of the Toyota brake pads are.
What I mean is what temp are they rated at.
II ask because if too much heat causes issues like brake fade and quality of Discs/Pads and Fluid is important, then the quality of all to withstand the heat would be important.
I have read that some pads will perform very well at temps of 700C but if I don't know what the original Toyota pads are capable of then I cant compare and make a choice if you see what I mean.
cheers
John 92HDJ80 !HDT
 
G

Guest

Guest
John,
I don't know what you are thinking of doing with your Cruiser but
it is probably not that extreme. For 99% of the cruisers out there a
standard set of pads from a good manufacturer are more than
sufficient. I use EBC but there are a few more you can choose from, if
you stop away from bargain basement shoes you will be OK.
A quick tip for a bit more pad area, 100 series front pads will
fit the 80 and give a larger braking area, not by much but it is a
small, no cost, easy to implement gain.
Regards,
Clive Marks
Home: +44 1293 514600
Mobile: +44 7821 491897
Crawley, West Sussex, UK.
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Guest
We have been using DBA slotted rotors and heavy duty Bendix 4wd pads for
"normal" applications, but they do take
A little temp to be god, so if you have a steep driveway, or live on a short
steep street, it can take some extra pedal
Effort first thing in the morning.
We have also been using a different pad material which works well cold, and
hot [650 deg C] and doesn't dust the
Wheels, wear well, and don't abuse the rotors, but they also cost 4 times as
much. I had them made for trucks like
Mine with 37" tyres and 250hp at the wheels initially.
But on the slotted rotors, damn they are good!
Darren McRae
95 FZJ80 supercharged, intercooled, 37's, Slee front and rear bar, 4.56 diff
gears, brake upgrade
etc etc .
_____
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of DAVID WALL
Sent: Saturday, 7 November 2009 6:57 PM
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: Re: [ELCO] brake pads and size
Its very common to get better brakes by using a bigger disc and just
mounting the same caliper and pads further from the hub (as long as it still
fits under the wheel rim)
Imagine a big heavy spining wheel - its much easier to stop it spinning by
grabbing the outter edge (further from the hub), by moving the friction
part of the brake system further from the hub (towards the outer part of the
wheel) you are decreasing the effort required by the brakes
The same concept as using a long breaker bar instead of a short one - try
undoing a rusty bolt with a short spanner (close to the spinning center)
then try with a long bar (further from the center of the rotation)
Dave
P.s. the Energy required to stop the vehicle is always as stated dependant
on the speed and weight - so no difference in energy required to be
dissipated (this is one of Newtons laws of Physics) (Google, Conservation
of Energy I think)
_____
From: Guns-N-Roses <[Email address removed]>
To: [Email address removed]
Sent: Friday, 6 November, 2009 15:15:14
Subject: Re: [ELCO] brake pads and size
Just to throw a little extra into the pot.
I have just replaced my front pads with those for a 100 series.
The pad back plates are the same size but there is more pad area.
I was told that this wouldn't improve the braking but the pads will last
longer.
Only about a thousand miles on them so far but fit and work a treat.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "john" <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 10:09 AM
To: <[Email address removed]>
Subject: [ELCO] brake pads and size
> Hi Guys
> My brake discs are the smaller pre 93 discs and as such I have always
thought that the slightly larger later discs for the 80 series would give
extra stopping ability.
> But now I'm confused and need some advice.
> I just bought a set of pads for my cruiser and they fit 80 series cruisers
from 1/90 up.
> So if the pads are all the same size no matter what year , how do the
larger discs make any difference at all.
> cheers
> john92HDJ801HDT
> --
> European Land Cruiser Owners Mailing List
> Further Info: http://www.landcruisers.info/
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Hi Guys
So some pads need heat to work, not at all interested in them.
I have been looking at Intima SR pads that claim just what Darren has said and work up to 700 deg C.
Now imp wondering if they work well when cold.
I had not considered cold only heat when thinking about pads, yet more good information.
Does any one know what the upper limit for the 80 series Toyota Pads are.
John92HDJ801HDT
 
G

Guest

Guest
Toyota pads wear well, but don't put up with much heat, they also give good
pedal feel.
Darren McRae
_____
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of john
Sent: Monday, 9 November 2009 7:51 AM
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: Re: [ELCO] brake pads and size
Hi Guys
So some pads need heat to work, not at all interested in them.
I have been looking at Intima SR pads that claim just what Darren has said
and work up to 700 deg C.
Now imp wondering if they work well when cold.
I had not considered cold only heat when thinking about pads, yet more good
information.
Does any one know what the upper limit for the 80 series Toyota Pads are.
John92HDJ801HDT
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Guys
Just had a reply back from a guy and he says the Toyota pads are rated for 250/300 deg C.
Now I wonder what the Temp gets up to under normal/average driving.
Are pads that are 700 deg C proof an over kill or wise.
The only measurement I have made is that the discs burn my fingers after I stop if I touch them.
I wonder is there a simple tool that could be applied to the disc after stopping and would this give an accurate indication of the real temps experienced in that area.
john92HDJ80 1HDT
 
G

Guest

Guest
------=_NextPart_001_01C6_01CA6129.7A1636B0
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There are paints you can use which change color at different settings.
You will know if your over using the brakes though,a s they will fade, and
will take a lot more pedal
Effort to get them to stop.
In more extreme cases like when I have run them, the material cracks and
comes away from the backing plates
In little flaky parts, when they get overcooked, and the rotors have gone
brown and blue.
Darren McRae Ph 03 522 11 371
20Dowsett St South Geelong Vic 3220
_____
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of john
Sent: Monday, 9 November 2009 10:34 AM
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: Re: [ELCO] brake pads and size
Hi Guys
Just had a reply back from a guy and he says the Toyota pads are rated for
250/300 deg C.
Now I wonder what the Temp gets up to under normal/average driving.
Are pads that are 700 deg C proof an over kill or wise.
The only measurement I have made is that the discs burn my fingers after I
stop if I touch them.
I wonder is there a simple tool that could be applied to the disc after
stopping and would this give an accurate indication of the real temps
experienced in that area.
john92HDJ80 1HDT
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10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>You will know if your over using the
brakes though,a s they will fade, and will take a lot more pedal<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Effort to get them to stop.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>In more extreme cases like when I have run
them, the material cracks and comes away from the backing plates<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>In little flaky parts, when they get
overcooked, and the rotors have gone brown and blue.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DDE
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy;font-weight:bold'>Darren
McRae  </span></font>
<font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DVerdana><span
lang=3DDE style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy'>Ph 03 522 11
371</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DVerdana><span style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DVerdana><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:#1F497D'><img width=3D225
height=3D157 id=3D"_x0000_i1026" src=3D"cid:[email protected]"></span></font><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DVerdana><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;
color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dnavy face=3DVerdana><span style=3D'font-size:
8.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy'>20Dowsett St <st1:place w:st=3D"on">South
Geelong</st1:place> Vic   3220<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font>
<font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
[Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] <span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span>
john

<span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span> Monday, 9 November 2009
10:34 AM

<span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span> [Email address removed]

<span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span> Re: [ELCO] brake pads and
size</span></font><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Hi Guys</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Just had a reply back from a guy and he says the <st1:City
w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D"on">Toyota</st1:place></st1:City> pads  are
rated for 250/300 deg C.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Now I wonder what the Temp gets up to under normal/average
driving.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Are pads that are 700 deg C proof an over kill or wise.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>The only measurement I have made is that the discs burn my
fingers after I stop if I touch them.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I wonder is there a simple tool that could be applied to the
disc after stopping and would this give an accurate  indication of
the real temps experienced in that area.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>john92HDJ80 1HDT</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>
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G

Guest

Guest
--000e0cd6c9ec4e50600477ec72be
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
The brakes will start to fade when you exceed the max operating temp so its
easy to tell when you reach it. with stock pads this would happen under
repeated heavy usage, like flooring it then braking hard in between
a series of roundabouts. i would not bother with modifying the brakes unless
you drive your truck hard, put alot of heavy mods onto it or you have
managed to warp your discs and had to replace them prematurely. Once your
brakes fade there braking efficiency gets worse so they require more effort
to stop and this is when you can warp the discs. If you increase the disc
size you will increase the heat sink and therefore potentially eliminate
brake fade and warp during your normal driving style. I used to have this
problem with a pug 306 diesel when rallying and the cheapest soloution was
to replace the pads with federo ds2500 and change the brake fluid to
synthetic. as a result of this i never got brake fade
again. unfortunately these amazing pads are not available for the 80, they
last as long as normal pads, work cold and up to
a ridiculously high temperature. EBC red stuff and green stuff, wear out
rather quickly, especially if they are used above stock pad temps.
Thanks
Rob
HDJ80
2009/11/8 Darren McRae <[Email address removed]>
> There are paints you can use which change color at different settings.
>
>
>
> You will know if your over using the brakes though,a s they will fade, and
> will take a lot more pedal
>
> Effort to get them to stop.
>
>
>
> In more extreme cases like when I have run them, the material cracks and
> comes away from the backing plates
>
> In little flaky parts, when they get overcooked, and the rotors have gone
> brown and blue.
>
>
>
> *Darren McRae *Ph 03 522 11 371
>
> 20Dowsett St South Geelong Vic 3220
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]]
> *On Behalf Of *john
> *Sent:* Monday, 9 November 2009 10:34 AM
>
> *To:* [Email address removed]
> *Subject:* Re: [ELCO] brake pads and size
>
>
>
> Hi Guys
>
> Just had a reply back from a guy and he says the Toyota pads are rated for
> 250/300 deg C.
>
> Now I wonder what the Temp gets up to under normal/average driving.
>
> Are pads that are 700 deg C proof an over kill or wise.
>
> The only measurement I have made is that the discs burn my fingers after I
> stop if I touch them.
>
> I wonder is there a simple tool that could be applied to the disc after
> stopping and would this give an accurate indication of the real temps
> experienced in that area.
>
> john92HDJ80 1HDT
>
--000e0cd6c9ec4e50600477ec72be
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The brakes will start to fade when you exceed the max operating temp so its easy to tell when you reach it. with stock pads this would happen under repeated heavy usage, like flooring it then braking hard in between a=A0series=A0of roundabouts. i would not bother with modifying the brakes=A0unless you drive your truck hard, put alot of heavy mods onto it or you have managed to warp your discs and had to replace them=A0prematurely. Once your brakes fade there=A0braking=A0efficiency gets worse so they require more effort to stop and this is when you can warp the discs. If you increase the disc size you will increase the heat sink and therefore=A0potentially=A0eliminate brake fade and warp during your normal driving style. I used to have this problem with a pug 306=A0diesel=A0when rallying and the cheapest soloution was to replace the pads with federo ds2500 and change the brake fluid to synthetic.=A0as a=A0result=A0of this i never got brake fade again.=A0unfortunately=A0these amazing pads are not available for the 80, they last as long as normal pads, work cold and up to a=A0ridiculously=A0high=A0temperature. EBC red stuff and green stuff, wear out rather=A0quickly, especially if they are used above stock pad temps.<div>

</div><div>Thanks</div><div>Rob</div><div>HDJ80

<div class=3D"gmail_quote">2009/11/8 Darren McRae <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[Email address removed]">[Email address removed]</a>></span>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div bgcolor=3D"white" lang=3D"EN-AU" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"blue">
<div><div class=3D"im">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">There are paints you can use which change
color at different settings.</span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">You will know if your over using the
brakes though,a s they will fade, and will take a lot more pedal</span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Effort to get them to stop.</span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font></p>
</div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">In more extreme cases like when I have run
them, the material cracks and comes away from the backing plates</span></font></p><div class=3D"im">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">In little flaky parts, when they get
overcooked, and the rotors have gone brown and blue.</span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Verdana"><span lang=3D"DE" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy;font-weight:bold">Darren
McRae =A0</span></font>
<font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Verdana"><span lang=3D"DE" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy">Ph 03 522 11
371</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Verdana"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black"></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Verdana"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:#1F497D"><img width=3D"225" height=3D"157" src=3D"cid:[email protected]"></span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Verdana"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy"></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Verdana"><span style=3D"font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy">20Dowsett St=A0South
Geelong=A0Vic =A0=A03220</span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D">=A0</span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">=A0</span></font></p>
</div><div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</span></font></div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">
<a href=3D"mailto:[Email address removed]" target=3D"_blank">[Email address removed]</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:[Email address removed]" target=3D"_blank">[Email address removed]</a>] <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span>john

<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Sent:</span> Monday, 9 November 2009
10:34 AM</span></font></p><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><div class=3D"im">

<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To:</span> <a href=3D"mailto:[Email address removed]" target=3D"_blank">[Email address removed]</a>

<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject:</span> Re: [ELCO] brake pads and
size</div></font><span lang=3D"EN-US"></span>

</p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">=A0</span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">Hi Guys</span></font></p>
</div><div><div></div><div class=3D"h5">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">Just had a reply back from a guy and he says the Toyota pads=A0 are
rated for 250/300 deg C.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">Now I wonder what the Temp gets up to under normal/average
driving.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">Are pads that are 700 deg C proof an over kill or wise.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">The only measurement I have made is that the discs burn my
fingers after I stop=A0if I touch them.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">I wonder is there a simple tool that could be applied to the
disc after stopping and would this=A0give an accurate=A0 indication of
the real temps experienced in that area.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">john92HDJ80 1HDT</span></font></p>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>
</blockquote></div>
</div>
--000e0cd6c9ec4e50600477ec72be--
 
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