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Castor correction thoughts.

I had all kinds of problems with the Caster Correction
80-Series-Front-Control-Arm-Drop-Brackets-1.jpg
bushings. I went with the Man-AFre control arm drop brackets about 5 years ago, still holding up great. The truck runs like factory, doesn't feel like is lifted at all.
 
Ok drop boxes seem the way to go.
Which ones are best for a 2" lift, manual transmission?
 
I wouldn't really correct a 2" lift. But if I did, I'd do plates. Boxes are really for 4" and over. Because of their design, you can't really make a box for a list as small as that. Plates work perfectly well and are an easy fit without anything going out of kilter.
 
Ok thanks chris, that makes sense.
It handled better with the castor correction bushes, but they were only a short term solution.
I will go with the plates.
 
Does anyone have a link to this fnb site? Cant seem to find it..
 
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Odd but something seems to be wrong with my link to their website. I hope there isn't a problem. I'll mail Chris.

But you don't need to get CC plates all the way from Oz!
 
There was a thing on FB ages ago saying he was shutting up his garage but the "Boss" side of things would continue under someone else.
 
I wouldn't really correct a 2" lift. But if I did, I'd do plates. Boxes are really for 4" and over. Because of their design, you can't really make a box for a list as small as that. Plates work perfectly well and are an easy fit without anything going out of kilter.

My opinion differs to this. The lift on my old truck was 2" and it drove terribly until the castor was corrected. I am aware that at 2" some people report their trucks are okay without correction but others most definitely are not. It simply doesn't make sense that the steering would be unaffected by lifting the suspension by 2" with the associated geometry and castor changes. I'd be surprised if the steering on all 2" lifts weren't improved by correcting the castor back to stock.

Drop boxes are also not just for the bigger lifts. They are available from Man e Fre specifically for lifts of 2", 3", 4" and on up. The issue is that they don't appear to be available for manuals with the smaller lifts. However, that doesn't mean they couldn't be made for the manual. I currently have 2.5" lift and am running the 3" drop boxes - castor is within spec.
 
I think he's moved to South Africa
 
Effectively a 2" lift is well within the up and down of suspension whilst driving. Meaning that the castor of an 80 has a tolerance value or else every time you leant round a corner, your steering would be out. All a lift effectively does is simulate the suspension articulating but from a different starting point. But of course every single movement of the axle alters the geometry in some way. As the arms pivot around the rear bolt the castor changes infinitely. Perhaps if you have a very light vehicle and do a 2" lift it rides higher than a 2" lift on a heavier truck. There may be a variance in just how much lift you get with a 2" kit between manufactures of course and how stiff that lift is.

If you took an 80 and stuck 5 adults and 3 kids in it I bet you'd get a -2" lift. No one reports steering problems when they do that.

I've had 3 x 2" lifts and not needed correction on any of them. But all trucks are different and maybe yours was in need of correction. But I'd not correct any vehicle just because I'd lifted it 2" unless it drove queer. Personally I don't see that boxes are necessary on smaller lifts. Boxes actually do two things. They correct castor of course, but they also get over the problem of the steering arm hitting the hockey sticks. There's no other way to do this. It's not that you couldn't make plates to correct that much lift, but it makes more sense to add the boxes. Essentially they are two different solutions to two slightly different issues. When I fitted my big lift I just couldn't get the prop angle straight nor clear the steering, however with the plates still on the steering felt fine.
 
I have to say that variations within the stock build have been shown to exist, even if we take @Lorin's example, 2.5 lift and 3" plates and still within tolerance. To clarify, a three inch lift may still be in tolerance not only with 3" but perhaps the other options 2" and even 4" plates?

My Land Rover had a decent lift, enough to screw the propshaft angle causing serious vibes so needing a double cardon but, the steering was fine.

Something else, one man's 'X' lift is not the same as the other, a spring from one manufacturer may say for example 2" lift, and it may be 1.5 thru to say 2.5, hence another reason one vehicle tracks true and another has issues.

I go back to my original thoughts, pay for alignment data on a stock setup, and also take measurements to see how the vehicle compares with OE spec.

Only then choose your poison.

Regards

Dave
 
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My opinion differs to this. The lift on my old truck was 2" and it drove terribly until the castor was corrected. I am aware that at 2" some people report their trucks are okay without correction but others most definitely are not. It simply doesn't make sense that the steering would be unaffected by lifting the suspension by 2" with the associated geometry and castor changes. I'd be surprised if the steering on all 2" lifts weren't improved by correcting the castor back to stock.

Drop boxes are also not just for the bigger lifts. They are available from Man e Fre specifically for lifts of 2", 3", 4" and on up. The issue is that they don't appear to be available for manuals with the smaller lifts. However, that doesn't mean they couldn't be made for the manual. I currently have 2.5" lift and am running the 3" drop boxes - castor is within spec.
Mine did drive better with the ome cc bushes in.
 
It's my view that most of these comments from real "experiences" compliment each other.

Chris' "variable castor" theory is simple geometry, it is bound to vary with normal undulations, and after a lift, that range simply shifts up a peg, or two depending on the lift.

My truck with 4" lift appeared to be fine on cc bushes, but after a lift, these trucks drive very differently, and you re-learn all the new driving characteristics.

In my case, I had a bent axle casing soon after the lift, so not knowing it had happened, I learned the new characteristics along with the effects of the bent casing.

After replacing the casing, it all changed again, noticeably for the better, but it still didn't feel "right" somehow, the biggest dislike of all being its sensitivity to be pulled to one side or the other when hitting standing water on one side.

The only thing going through my head was castor, but the geometry check at that time, showed everything in tolerance. Anyway, I went ahead with the change to drop boxes, and it was like a eureka moment, the truck drove like a new one, such a massive improvement, almost unbelievable.

It's just my experience, I'm sure Chris has a point that the plates are perfectly adequate for a 2" lift, I've never had one so I wouldn't know. But if you go for 4" or more, I would strongly recommend the boxes.
 
It's my view that most of these comments from real "experiences" compliment each other.

Chris' "variable castor" theory is simple geometry, it is bound to vary with normal undulations, and after a lift, that range simply shifts up a peg, or two depending on the lift.

My truck with 4" lift appeared to be fine on cc bushes, but after a lift, these trucks drive very differently, and you re-learn all the new driving characteristics.

In my case, I had a bent axle casing soon after the lift, so not knowing it had happened, I learned the new characteristics along with the effects of the bent casing.

After replacing the casing, it all changed again, noticeably for the better, but it still didn't feel "right" somehow, the biggest dislike of all being its sensitivity to be pulled to one side or the other when hitting standing water on one side.

The only thing going through my head was castor, but the geometry check at that time, showed everything in tolerance. Anyway, I went ahead with the change to drop boxes, and it was like a eureka moment, the truck drove like a new one, such a massive improvement, almost unbelievable.

It's just my experience, I'm sure Chris has a point that the plates are perfectly adequate for a 2" lift, I've never had one so I wouldn't know. But if you go for 4" or more, I would strongly recommend the boxes.
Yup, sometimes you dont realise how bad something is until you realise how good it can actually be..
 
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Holy thread revival!

Well I finally got around to getting the non CC bushes fitted. Actually I've done all the bushes everywhere, drives like a different vehicle now, the rear axle bushes were toast, most of the outer sleeves had rotted through!

I also dug out my receipts so I can confirm my lift, 6 year old OME 50mm lift springs and 20mm pedders Spring spacers.

Hard to say how much the springs have sagged over all that time but it drives surprisingly well considering the lack of castor correction at the minute, although I haven't had a go on the motorway yet as my mot was cancelled today so I'm currently mot-less.

I've got some plates on the way from Karl so it'll be interesting to fit them and see what the difference is, I'll report back!

Rob
 
Starting this thread off again....

Does anyone know what size the larger bolts for the drop box are please?

I am not with my cruiser and the chap who is fitting the boxes doesn't have anything to give me a start.

Cheers
 
Yes it's 24mm socket which makes it a m14. But unsure what length I need
 
Yes it's 24mm socket which makes it a m14. But unsure what length I need
For the length, take a piece of straw, or a wire, stick it in the hole an measure it. As long as the bolt is at least 2 inches long, it should be OK. Those bolts go into the frame.
 
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