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Charging batteries

G

Guest

Guest
Hi Guys,
When charging the battery on a series 80, does it make any difference which
battery the charger is connected to and do both batteries get charged at the
same time?
TTFN
Chas
London UK '94 1HDT 80 Auto, 110000+ miles, Safari snorkel, Custom Winch
bumper + winch, + Ray Dadd Rocksliders
 
G

Guest

Guest
They both get charged as a pair.
Regards,
Clive Marks
Home: +44 1293 514600
Mobile: +44 7821 491897
Crawley, West Sussex, UK.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Chas
Assuming you've got the conventional 12v normal / 24v start setup then
the two batteries are normally connected in parallel, and it makes no
difference which you connect the charger up to.
It's safer to connect to the RHS (looking forward) one as this has its
-ve terminal connected to earth, so its + terminal is always 12v with
respect to the chassis, which eliminates any potential problems if you
start it with the charger still connected.
CB
| Hi Guys,
| When charging the battery on a series 80, does it make any difference
| which
| battery the charger is connected to and do both batteries get charged
at
| the
| same time?
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G

Guest

Guest
Hi,
When charging both batteries at the same time, one battery will get
all the charge, while the other will be charged through a resistance
created by cabling and the 12V/24V solenoid switch. Hence, ideally
each battery should be charged separately. For occasional charging and
it makes little difference.
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80 (auto)
On Dec 18, 2007 5:43 PM, Christopher Bell <[Email address removed]> wrote:
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Guys
Just wondering if anyone else is getting the question about 20 minutes
after the answer has been sent.
I know you lot are fast at times but I think this maybe too fast.
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chas" <[Email address removed]>
To: "ELCO" <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 5:39 PM
Subject: [ELCO] Charging batteries
 
G

Guest

Guest
It's because we're further east than you John, so things happen here
before they do in Ireland ;-}
If you could get the earth to reverse its direction of spin you'd be
ahead of us ...
CB
| Hi Guys
| Just wondering if anyone else is getting the question about 20
minutes
| after the answer has been sent.
| I know you lot are fast at times but I think this maybe too fast.
| cheers
ists/
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G

Guest

Guest
Sorry to say it, but:
What utter nonsense!
1 - The voltage drop you get at the current flow of a charger is
negligible.
2 - Even if you use a BIG charger, and do get a voltage drop resulting in
a momentary difference in charge level; it will soon be levelled out,
because the batteries stay connected in parallell most of the time.
It's perfectly OK to connect a charger to only one battery, as long as
your wiring is in order.
On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:49:23 +0100, Roman <[Email address removed]>
wrote:
--
Ugo Hu, Oslo, Norway
HDJ100, Auto, AHC, 2001; ex HZJ80
 
G

Guest

Guest
After posting this message, all the rest came flooding in, I think my ISP
has constipation!
TTFN
Chas
----- Original Message -----
From: <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [ELCO] Charging batteries
Hi John,
I am not getting any of the messages, they are not coming to my mailbox, I
am answering this one via my webmail link.
TTFN
Chas
 
G

Guest

Guest
And some more rubbish.
The resistance in the circuit may be small and unimportant, that is
correct, but don't come the crap about the batteries equalling out. It
is the fact that they are connected in parallel that stops one from
charging early.
Basically the battery with the resistance, or the older battery having
a reduced voltage because of age, will not get a full charge. This is
because the charger is looking for a set voltage. When it sees this
voltage it stops charging, so we have one battery at the correct level
(stopping the charger), and one that hasn't quite made it. When you
remember that a 'flat' car battery still has about 10 volts in it you
realise that a small difference is of more significance. To be sure of
charging them both to optimum charge them seperately. This is probably
of little significance with a pair of car batteries, unless they did
not start out as a pair and one is behind the other in voltage before
you start.
While I am on the topic of batteries I will expose another silly idea.
You can connect together two batteries of differing AH rates as a
pair and use them just as you would a matched pair. The batteries are
using power based on the voltage, not the amperage. Taking one battery
of 100 amps and one of 50 amps and connecting them will work fine as
the power take off will be done with reference to the remaining
voltage. This means that the batteries will both be half empty at the
same time and they will both be flat at the same time.
The worst thing that you can do for battery life is to use a new
battery with a half good one. Because of the above the good one will
do more of the work and its life will be shortened considerably.
Regards,
Clive Marks
Home: +44 1293 514600
Mobile: +44 7821 491897
Crawley, West Sussex, UK.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Er easy chaps it's Christmas. There are better ways of saying that you think
someone is wrong. IMHO of course.
Jeremy
On 18/12/07 19:10, "Clive Marks" <[Email address removed]> wrote:
Jeremy Llewellyn-Jones
Mob: 07831 458 793
--
 
G

Guest

Guest
Jeremy,
I am prone to replying to these people in the same tone as the
message that I am replying to, in order to be understood of course.
I try to refrain from telling folks they are talking rubbish as,
even if I think they are, they believe it when they type it and they
may be correct.
It is not yet Christmas but it is getting dangerously close, if I
ignore it will it go away?
Regards,
Clive Marks
Home: +44 1293 514600
Mobile: +44 7821 491897
Crawley, West Sussex, UK.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Clive
Understood.
Best thing to do is go away. A long way away. Last year we went to Zanzibar
on Dec 14 for just over 2 weeks. Wish we'd done the same this year... Even
better for me as I spent my first 20 years in east africa.
Jeremy
On 18/12/07 19:34, "Clive Marks" <[Email address removed]> wrote:
Jeremy Llewellyn-Jones
Mob: 07831 458 793
--
 
G

Guest

Guest
Yes. You are right. Christmas or not.
And Clive is right too. Nothing wrong whatsover afaiks. We just have to
misunderstand each other correctly ;-)
Yes, the batteries will equal out. But what is it that will equal out in
them? Answer: The Voltage. Not the charge level.
Now, if you have two different (e.g. one half crappy) batteries, and
charge them separately, they will both stop receiving any charge at the
same voltage if using the same charger. And even if you charged them to
their individual highest potential, separately giving a differing voltage,
they would still equal out in voltage when connected together in
parallell. Which means that one might not be at it's highest possible
charge level anymore.
And yes, you should use equal batteries in a bank. It is possible to have
two different sized batteries in parallell, but it is unlikely that they
would have the same voltage vs capacity-percentage curve. Meaning that
not only the voltage at max capacity comes into play, but also the voltage
at any capacity between 0 and 100 %. E.g. one battery could be at 25 %
capacity at a certain voltage where the other one is at 75 % capacity.
And that ratio would change continously over the voltage range. But if
they are of a similar construction it will probably work out very well.
Best is to use two matched batteries.
The temperature here has now dropped to minus 11 C. All the trees and the
fields have a thick layer of frost, like a christmas card. Glad two have
a pair of new batteries. The original 7 year old ones wouldn't have made
it without a thorough resurrection.
On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 20:20:14 +0100, Jeremy Llewellyn-Jones
<[Email address removed]> wrote:
--
Ugo Hu, Oslo, Norway
HDJ100, Auto, AHC, 2001; ex HZJ80
 
G

Guest

Guest
As they say Flame suit on - seems some aggression around.
Not so sure the resistance in the lead is so small, it is though probably
unimportant on an 80 series with the parallel connection, as you said in
your post small voltage differences are all that is required on batteries to
make one do all the work and 2V difference is charged to flat.
On generators we are always mindful of the run from the charger to the
batteries, a) because it is often not protected by a fuse etc, it is on the
charger but not on the battery side b) on a 25A charger the volt drop will
be appreciable as the charger connections are of a limited size.
Occasionally, normally with nicads, we use a sensing connection that
compensates for the voltage drop.
I think UHu is referring to the equalisation charge as used in fork lifts
etc. I seem to remember on a fork lift the equalisation charge voltage is
slightly higher than the normal charge voltage, the principal being that it
will "reset" the battery voltages to the same level (so they do more work),
but that is perhaps more for series connected batteries?
I have to say that as the batteries in parallel with a hefty connection I
don't see how one could have a different voltage and stop the charger while
the other was not fully charged? I have always imagine that if two similar
batteries of different charge levels were connected in parallel they would
even out? All of the installations I deal with are in series to give 24V,
although sometimes we have two pairs of series batteries in parallel.
With regard to different capacities - I understand your point - I would
still be cautions, different capacity batteries, and or different
manufacturers are likely to have different internal resistances, I wonder if
during high current draw there might be a lack of output from one battery,
of course when the voltage drooped on one the other would come into effect
but I don't know if on a 50% load you would see and equal split in the work?
For reference I am no real expert on batteries, I hate batteries, chargers
and battery leads - just ordered =A37K's worth batteries and leads today -
need 720l of acid to fill them - using 8 off 140AH batteries on a generator,
6 generators, 48 batteries, each holding 15L of acid and weighing something
like 57KG filled.
Malcolm
Stafford (UK)
FJ45 '75 & FJ45 '76
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Clive Marks
Sent: 18 December 2007 19:11
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: Re: [ELCO] Charging batteries
And some more rubbish.
The resistance in the circuit may be small and unimportant, that is
correct, but don't come the crap about the batteries equalling out. It
is the fact that they are connected in parallel that stops one from
charging early.
Basically the battery with the resistance, or the older battery having
a reduced voltage because of age, will not get a full charge. This is
because the charger is looking for a set voltage. When it sees this
voltage it stops charging, so we have one battery at the correct level
(stopping the charger), and one that hasn't quite made it. When you
remember that a 'flat' car battery still has about 10 volts in it you
realise that a small difference is of more significance. To be sure of
charging them both to optimum charge them seperately. This is probably
of little significance with a pair of car batteries, unless they did
not start out as a pair and one is behind the other in voltage before
you start.
While I am on the topic of batteries I will expose another silly idea.
You can connect together two batteries of differing AH rates as a
pair and use them just as you would a matched pair. The batteries are
using power based on the voltage, not the amperage. Taking one battery
of 100 amps and one of 50 amps and connecting them will work fine as
the power take off will be done with reference to the remaining
voltage. This means that the batteries will both be half empty at the
same time and they will both be flat at the same time.
The worst thing that you can do for battery life is to use a new
battery with a half good one. Because of the above the good one will
do more of the work and its life will be shortened considerably.
Regards,
Clive Marks
Home: +44 1293 514600
Mobile: +44 7821 491897
Crawley, West Sussex, UK.

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G

Guest

Guest
My computer is useless - I get the messages in the right order most of the
time - it's just the outgoing that seems to sit in the inbox unless I push
it out, if I forget eventually it goes just as I read a later reply, then my
out of date message appears. I also hate Windows Vista and wireless
networks, my isp (and Christmas, everything except a family dinner and a few
days off)
Malcolm
Stafford (UK)
FJ45 '75 & FJ45 '76
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of UHu
Sent: 18 December 2007 21:48
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: Re: [ELCO] Charging batteries
Yes. You are right. Christmas or not.
And Clive is right too. Nothing wrong whatsover afaiks. We just have to
misunderstand each other correctly ;-)
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.4/1188 - Release Date: 17/12/2007
14:13
 
G

Guest

Guest
Batteries
riiiiiiiight erm i read this and re read it and you know what i have no idea what any one is talking about, not i hasten to add that they arent talking total sense, its just me!!! ive two red top optima for starting and a yellow top optima for the rest on my 80 and theyve been perfect..i think its a case of ignorance is bliss!

I dont contribute much mainly because i know F**k all but ive loved reading all of the threads and never cease to be amazed at peoples knowledge and their willingness to share it..thanks to all..thanks to john for asking the questions that i wish id thought to ask and thanks to julian for all his work! how he finds time as well to create children ill never know (hang on i vaguely remember how to do that!)

a happy christmas and an interesting new year to you all ..

right!!! back to the batteries.. John would you ask please whats the difference between voltage and charge level.. on second thoughts ..ill just ignore the damn things!!!


regards


jeff watts

www.gonewandering.co.uk




> Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 22:48:02 +0100> To: [Email address removed]> Subject: Re: [ELCO] Charging batteries> From: [Email address removed]> > Yes. You are right. Christmas or not.> > And Clive is right too. Nothing wrong whatsover afaiks. We just have to > misunderstand each other correctly ;-)> > Yes, the batteries will equal out. But what is it that will equal out in > them? Answer: The Voltage. Not the charge level.> > Now, if you have two different (e.g. one half crappy) batteries, and > charge them separately, they will both stop receiving any charge at the > same voltage if using the same charger. And even if you charged them to > their individual highest potential, separately giving a differing voltage, > they would still equal out in voltage when connected together in > parallell. Which means that one might not be at it's highest possible > charge level anymore.> > And yes, you should use equal batteries in a bank. It is possible to have > two different sized batteries in parallell, but it is unlikely that they > would have the same voltage vs capacity-percentage curve. Meaning that > not only the voltage at max capacity comes into play, but also the voltage > at any capacity between 0 and 100 %. E.g. one battery could be at 25 % > capacity at a certain voltage where the other one is at 75 % capacity. > And that ratio would change continously over the voltage range. But if > they are of a similar construction it will probably work out very well.> > Best is to use two matched batteries.> > The temperature here has now dropped to minus 11 C. All the trees and the > fields have a thick layer of frost, like a christmas card. Glad two have > a pair of new batteries. The original 7 year old ones wouldn't have made > it without a thorough resurrection.> > On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 20:20:14 +0100, Jeremy Llewellyn-Jones > <[Email address removed]> wrote:> > > Er easy chaps it's Christmas. There are better ways of saying that you > > think someone is wrong. IMHO of course.> >> > Jeremy> >> >> >> > On 18/12/07 19:10, "Clive Marks" <[Email address removed]> wrote:> >> >>> >> > Jeremy Llewellyn-Jones> >> > Mob: 07831 458 793> > > > -- > Ugo Hu, Oslo, Norway> HDJ100, Auto, AHC, 2001; ex HZJ80> --> European Land Cruiser Owners Mailing List> Further Info: http://www.landcruisers.info/lists/
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G

Guest

Guest
Ah Jeff
Dont feel too bad there are a few of us out there that get completly lost to say the least when the tech guys start talking to each other.
We may not have a glue what they are saying when they are passionate about things but the amazing and really great thing is when you need help or knowledge they are able to explain in simple concise terns we can all understand, well most of the time.
cheers
john92HDJ 80 1HDT
 
G

Guest

Guest
Well then the guys if I have to litsen to some guy ranting about
charging them battery it will be some guy like UHU where it makes
-10=B0C, not some you guys from England. Putain - 10C is cold!
And nobody but some crazy man mix up new battery with old one. Well
Einstein you look at them dates on the battery when you buy them. They
musts be the same built dates! Or, your better battery is now no
gooder than your worst battery, put down that gun to your head, Regis
!
BB
But we say we should be nicer to each other even that its Christmas.
 
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