Charlie
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Device charging advised for any UK flight
- Thread starter Charlie
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It's nuts. It's complete misdirection. I travel a fair amount and have to through this every time. Now don't get me wrong I don't want to be blown up by some scumbag, but flying to somewhere like Jersey, or Zante surely doesn't need everyone to have the full ass-invasion search. I see little old ladies, mums with pushchairs etc all having the third degree. I look around and without any kind of stereotyping I can assure you, and I think to myself, now that's the person I'd be searching...
I also have to travel a fair bit with work and the differences in security arrangements in various locales is staggering.
As examples, if it's perceived that travelers from the middle-east are more likely to be a threat, then it surprises me that security in Qatar, Oman, Dubai, Abu Dhabi (only singled out because that's predominantly where I travel in the region) is much more relaxed than Europe or the UK.
I don't travel to the states much so I can't comment.
European security is fairly consistent between countries, Denmark, UK, Romania, Germany, Netherlands, Austria, Spain, Bulgaria, Greece & Turkey (again because I travel to these places frequently).
I ask at security, do you want me to take external hard drives out of my bag? (Along with having to remove my laptop, iPad, phone etc) and they say no, then after passing the scanner, they hold my bag asking why I need this equipment.
I want to say mind your effin business, is it permitted to carry them, or not? Yes or no, it's easy. Yes is always the answer, so what's the problem.
Cameras, I often carry a video and still camera. What do you want with these in Oman? What? They're effin cameras for Gs sake, I have one in the phone and on my iPad, again, yes or no? Yes is the answer, so WTF.
Stupid time wasting, disruptive, annoying and degrading tactics, IMO. list what we can carry, or better still what we can't carry, then leave us alone! That's without having to pass through half naked and re-dressing at a small table or chair in everyone's way.
...and the real terrorists still get through. It all needs re-thinking IMHO.
As examples, if it's perceived that travelers from the middle-east are more likely to be a threat, then it surprises me that security in Qatar, Oman, Dubai, Abu Dhabi (only singled out because that's predominantly where I travel in the region) is much more relaxed than Europe or the UK.
I don't travel to the states much so I can't comment.
European security is fairly consistent between countries, Denmark, UK, Romania, Germany, Netherlands, Austria, Spain, Bulgaria, Greece & Turkey (again because I travel to these places frequently).
I ask at security, do you want me to take external hard drives out of my bag? (Along with having to remove my laptop, iPad, phone etc) and they say no, then after passing the scanner, they hold my bag asking why I need this equipment.
I want to say mind your effin business, is it permitted to carry them, or not? Yes or no, it's easy. Yes is always the answer, so what's the problem.
Cameras, I often carry a video and still camera. What do you want with these in Oman? What? They're effin cameras for Gs sake, I have one in the phone and on my iPad, again, yes or no? Yes is the answer, so WTF.
Stupid time wasting, disruptive, annoying and degrading tactics, IMO. list what we can carry, or better still what we can't carry, then leave us alone! That's without having to pass through half naked and re-dressing at a small table or chair in everyone's way.
...and the real terrorists still get through. It all needs re-thinking IMHO.
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I probably look like the stereotypical terrorist yet only once have i been stopped and that was after security passed me through , a pilot seeing me walking through the tunnel late and alone with no hand luggage other than a thousand page fictional book stepped up and held out his hand for the book , nothing said he just opened the book flicked through the pages then handed it back with a nod and continued on his way . I can't remember if that was Dublin or Glasgow . I couldn't get through the metal detector for an Isle of Man flight and so was asked to remove my cowboy boots until another security staff announced at full volume for all to hear "he's got a walking stick he doesn't have to remove his boots" 
. I did anyway and it was them triggering the alarm . Cardiff airport on the way to Cyprus i clocked a security guard eyeballing me , i gave him a look which said i'm not in the mood for you and he just ducked and walked away .
I really don't see the point in any of it , why not just lock the pilots in the cockpit while on the ground making it impossible to hijack a plane .
. I did anyway and it was them triggering the alarm . Cardiff airport on the way to Cyprus i clocked a security guard eyeballing me , i gave him a look which said i'm not in the mood for you and he just ducked and walked away .I really don't see the point in any of it , why not just lock the pilots in the cockpit while on the ground making it impossible to hijack a plane .
Doodle
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Except it wouldn't. Even on the other side of an impenetrably sealed door, they are human, they have emotion and therefore can be influenced.
How many passengers and cabin crew do you need to sacrifice for the cause before one of them cracks?
How many passengers and cabin crew do you need to sacrifice for the cause before one of them cracks?
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Paddler Ed
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My biggest worry is not necessarily the security in terms of physical (bombs etc) but rather that of the biosecurity. Now that I'm used to flying into Australia (about to do my 5th run through quarantine etc in 4 years) I'm amazed at how lax the British biosecurity is; realistically the Foot and Mouth outbreak cost the UK economy over £6.3m in the period 2001-2004... it's not beyond the wit of man to introduce a similarly destructive disease into the UK or Europe and hit the economy (and avoid the negative PR of killing (directly) people)
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Yes that's all very well Sir, I am sure we have someone looking into that already, but if you could just remove your shoes again for me one more time.... Sorry, yes this is the Leeds to Southampton flight, yes Sir.
moggy1968
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people thought that about the liquid in bottles as well, but it turned out to be based on very credible evidence. the cell was eventually cracked at enormous personal risk by British Intelligence after the CIA fucked up and nearly blew the whole investigation. New technology in explosives meant it was only a matter of time and opportunity before a IED disguised as a drink was going to be taken on a flight. not maybe, when.
bear in mind, 9/11 was based around domestic US flights. they were an easy target because security was so lax so just because a plane is not flying far doesn't mean security should be any less.
As we know, someone was caught with IED shoes, so thats why we have shoe checks.
Pilots are locked in the cockpit, and have been since 9/11.
They don't do this stuff just to piss you off. Frankly they have better things to do. A number of terror plots have been thwarted thanks to these measures so they are necessary, and they do work.
Incidently, biosecurity in terrorism is taken seriously by British Intelligence, thats why I was vaccinated against smallpox when the iraq war started (you have to be vaccinated yourself to vaccinate others so volunteer medics were vaccinated) but at the moment intelligence points to other risks as being more likely
bear in mind, 9/11 was based around domestic US flights. they were an easy target because security was so lax so just because a plane is not flying far doesn't mean security should be any less.
As we know, someone was caught with IED shoes, so thats why we have shoe checks.
Pilots are locked in the cockpit, and have been since 9/11.
They don't do this stuff just to piss you off. Frankly they have better things to do. A number of terror plots have been thwarted thanks to these measures so they are necessary, and they do work.
Incidently, biosecurity in terrorism is taken seriously by British Intelligence, thats why I was vaccinated against smallpox when the iraq war started (you have to be vaccinated yourself to vaccinate others so volunteer medics were vaccinated) but at the moment intelligence points to other risks as being more likely
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I appreciate that but there is such a thing as intelligence led policing. The cops don't just stop anyone in the vain hope they may have committed a crime, they 'target' those with a higher likelihood. At customs they could apply the same sort of logic I am sure and change things around a bit. If I was a bomber, would I hid the explosives in my shoes? Not likely, I know they're looking. So I will be looking for new places to hide them. Once something happens, the services react and then start looking in people's hats. Outwardly, it just doesn't seem very intelligent. Oddly, I don't see 6 Essex girls in pink going to Malaga as a high level threat. And what's more they are LEAVING the country which has to be a good thing. Surely.
moggy1968
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to an extent, it's 'visible' policing.
They do use intelligence led policing as well, but you won't often see that, which is intentional. They keep checking established practices like sticking explosives in your shoes both because it's a known method, so may be used again (criminals follow patterns of behaviour, not necessarily intelligent ones!) and because of the risk of copy cat incidents. They will also profile particular types of people. I always used to get pinged coming through Dover because I was single bloke travelling in a large vehicle. In the 70s and 80s if you were irish, you were going to be targeted. They target others because otherwise the righteous liberals moan about racism, and also because people don't always fit the profile. They also stop people for things other than terrorism. 6 girls off to malaga may well flag up for a search for other reasons (drugs for example).
Just be thankful no one has tried to hide a bomb in their pants yet
They do use intelligence led policing as well, but you won't often see that, which is intentional. They keep checking established practices like sticking explosives in your shoes both because it's a known method, so may be used again (criminals follow patterns of behaviour, not necessarily intelligent ones!) and because of the risk of copy cat incidents. They will also profile particular types of people. I always used to get pinged coming through Dover because I was single bloke travelling in a large vehicle. In the 70s and 80s if you were irish, you were going to be targeted. They target others because otherwise the righteous liberals moan about racism, and also because people don't always fit the profile. They also stop people for things other than terrorism. 6 girls off to malaga may well flag up for a search for other reasons (drugs for example).
Just be thankful no one has tried to hide a bomb in their pants yet
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I reckon i could rig my phone to work on a smaller battery and remove the antenna , camera etc which makes this new rule farcical . They can't even stop cannabis being imported/exported when all they need is a dog to sniff it out ! Nothing is gonna stop a determined terrorist especially a suicidal one with financial backing . Of course every effort must be made to prevent such tragedies as 9/11 but there has to be a better way of doing it than strip searching everyone .
Maybe the focus should be moved to medical science . Instead of a metal detector use a scanner that detects increased heart rate and perspiration and all the other stuff that medics say accompany dishonesty or anxiety which may suggest criminal intent . No doubt they have the technology to do this while your swapping your ticket for a boarding pass so no delays and every single passenger of every single flight would pass through unbiased scrutiny .
Maybe the focus should be moved to medical science . Instead of a metal detector use a scanner that detects increased heart rate and perspiration and all the other stuff that medics say accompany dishonesty or anxiety which may suggest criminal intent . No doubt they have the technology to do this while your swapping your ticket for a boarding pass so no delays and every single passenger of every single flight would pass through unbiased scrutiny .
Appreciate all the comments Moggy, I know it's not a matter that can be ignored, I just get a bit frustrated by the variances in the rules or maybe the variances in implementation.
If I know the laptop and the iPad, and the phone, the hard drives and charging cables and the like have to be taken out of the bag, then that helps me prepare while I'm standing in the queue for 45 minutes
Most of the inconvenience is travelers not knowing what they have to do, or just too stupid to do the right thing at the right time. To go through the scanners and then after to empty my bag is crazy, both for the efficiency of the security guards and me potentially missing my flight. My complaint is the lack of organization, not what they're doing.
BTW, I greatly admire the efforts of security and the intelligence personnel, it's a dangerous job that I wouldn't want to do and dealing with thousands of the average traveller daily, must be soul destroying!
If I know the laptop and the iPad, and the phone, the hard drives and charging cables and the like have to be taken out of the bag, then that helps me prepare while I'm standing in the queue for 45 minutes
Most of the inconvenience is travelers not knowing what they have to do, or just too stupid to do the right thing at the right time. To go through the scanners and then after to empty my bag is crazy, both for the efficiency of the security guards and me potentially missing my flight. My complaint is the lack of organization, not what they're doing.
BTW, I greatly admire the efforts of security and the intelligence personnel, it's a dangerous job that I wouldn't want to do and dealing with thousands of the average traveller daily, must be soul destroying!
moggy1968
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I went to New York a little while after 9/11. when I was going up the statue of liberty the guard asked me to power up my laptop. he then asked me to shut it down, then he started doing his nut because I wouldn't shut it down until it had powered up so I could shut it down properly, I mean, properly doing his nut in a 'SHUT THE COMPUTER DOWN NOW SIR!' He really was a prize cock in a position he had neither the aptitude or knowledge for.
Anyways, I missed the ferry out to the island so we got chatting. I pointed out a number of the flaws in their security, for example, making everyone leave their bags in left luggage lockers (such a popular bomb drop location they got rid of them all in the UK years before), likewise their proliferation of rubbish bins and the way that and other measures forced very large groups of people into small spaces together, making them a perfect target, and the fact that after passing through the security tent on the way to the landing stage anyone who had not gone through security could pass a bag over a waist high crowd barrier to you!!
he asked how I knew so much about security. I avoided explaining any fuckwit with half a brain cell could work it out, it had taken me all of 2 minutes. Instead I pointed out that in the UK we had lived with terrorism for over 30 years. He looked a bit blank and asked what terrorism, so I had to explain. Apparently terrorism didn't exist, until it happened against America!!!
I also avoided pointing out the hypocrisy of Clintons vow to stamp out terrorism wherever it existed, while being a supporter of NORAID!
Anyways, I missed the ferry out to the island so we got chatting. I pointed out a number of the flaws in their security, for example, making everyone leave their bags in left luggage lockers (such a popular bomb drop location they got rid of them all in the UK years before), likewise their proliferation of rubbish bins and the way that and other measures forced very large groups of people into small spaces together, making them a perfect target, and the fact that after passing through the security tent on the way to the landing stage anyone who had not gone through security could pass a bag over a waist high crowd barrier to you!!
he asked how I knew so much about security. I avoided explaining any fuckwit with half a brain cell could work it out, it had taken me all of 2 minutes. Instead I pointed out that in the UK we had lived with terrorism for over 30 years. He looked a bit blank and asked what terrorism, so I had to explain. Apparently terrorism didn't exist, until it happened against America!!!
I also avoided pointing out the hypocrisy of Clintons vow to stamp out terrorism wherever it existed, while being a supporter of NORAID!
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I'll bet he was glad to see the back of you All good points though, there seems to be much less brain-work in security than there needs to be...
All good points though, there seems to be much less brain-work in security than there needs to be...
There is no brain work in it at all. I have huge objection to the whole thing, given that it only takes place to appease idiotic, xenophobic Yanks a large proportion of who are too morbidly obese to fly anyway thankfully.
The whole thing makes no sense, by increasing the difficulty, one increases the 'prize' for success. Equally no amount of 'security' is going to completely prevent the problem. How many 'terrorist plots' have all these wonderful systems prevented??
To me it would seem easier (and more dramatic for want of a better word) for a suicide bomber to blow up a bus full of explosives in somewhere like Time Square.
All this nonsense is just an excuse for more snooping and intrusion into peoples lives, the same intrusion and interference that causes extremism to flourish in the first place IMHO. The world would run a lot more smoothly if the USA and their staunch allies the EU minded their own business and stopped trying to control their respective populaces and that of foreign countries.
As an aside, I have seen plenty of terrorism and its effects first and second hand in my life, not just on the news. The majority of it was perpetrated by or directly funded by the USA. Hence I really have no sympathy for them as a nation or a people when terror strikes back, I believe in some cultures they call that 'karma', in ours it is described by a proverb along the lines of 'thou shalt reep what thy sow'.
I shall not be offering any apology for that last statement, it also does NOT mean I am some kind of 'terrorism fan'.
moggy1968
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The one thing the Americans failed to ask after 9-11 was 'why do people hate us so much they would want to do this?'
At the time, I was on a course with the army. On the 12 sept was scheduled a talk by GCHQ on current threats to world security. When the guy came in his opening comment was 'the events of yesterday do not change the content of this lecture' He went on to elaborate why but I'll leave that to your imagination.
One of the things he did show a slide on was the top 10 current threats to world security. In the middle of his list was McDonalds. It wasn't McDonalds per se, he could have just as easily substituted in coca cola or lots of other wholesome 'merican brands, his point was, the American way of life and their insistence on forcing it on every one else, shoving it down the worlds collective throats and failing to realise who objectionable many people find that. 'Don't you wanna be 'nmerican boy?' If your answer is 'err, no, not really' the look of incomprehension is something to behold!
The antimuslim hysteria that followed 9/11 reminded me very much of the communist paranoia of America in the 1930s and beyond
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Chris Green90
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I guess you would need a much bigger bomb to blow up a ferry but I can't believe how easy it is for people to just jump in the back of a wagon at calais. Look at 1:55, 3:25 and 4:30
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