E10 fuel coming soon

[flint]

It looks as though E10 petrol will be at the pumps soon in the UK. Obviously not a problem for the oilers amongst us (diesels), but on various compatibility charts pre '98 Toyota engines are not included as being ok. Whether this is down to seals being affected by the extra ethanol or other reasons is not stated, but might be worth further investigation.

https://www.acea.be/uploads/publications/ACEA_E10_compatibility.pdf

 

[Grimbo]

More worryingly B10 is also round the corner ...

E10 is nothing but a cynical way to force perfectly good vehicles off the road and to force people to buy EV's .... it's only going to get worse as the true nature of EV's becomes obvious and the public still won't follow the path of the EV cul de sac that car makers and government want us to follow.

Some current diesels are already so efficient they will not record any emissions on current MOT test equipment therefore showing the lie of "dirty diesels"

The mainstream car makers got behind EV's for no other reason than it was cheaper for them than the countless millions it would cost to try and get any IC engine to the next proposed tier of emission

 

[GeekOKent]

@Grimbo what diesel in what car won't record emissions on the mot equipment?

 

[Grimbo]

My BIL is an MOT qualified tester at a Ford main dealer....conversation with him a few days ago and he was telling me that this was an issue for them despite getting the latest test kit...
He said the reply from the ministry was "We know....just record the test and the vehicle details "
I will find out what models / makes ....
Ford have an issue with their latest EV's and they are not being released for sale..... the reason is known but almost a gagging order in place to stop techs revealing details ....
He like every other technician I speak to believes EV's are going to be the next big con like telling everyone to buy a diesel a few years ago...
Government and manufacturers are going to have to resort to some pretty low tricks to get most of the population to change....

My work van has a range of 600 miles on a tank of derv and will do 500 towing 3.5 ton and at GVM with tools and kit....no EV exists even in prototype form that can do that ... so what option can they give me ?

 

[chadr]

My work van has a range of 600 miles on a tank of derv and will do 500 towing 3.5 ton and at GVM with tools and kit....no EV exists even in prototype form that can do that ... so what option can they give me ?

I'm certainly not evangelical about EVs but just to provide a counter-point to above...

Quite a few companies are now making commercial EVs and with the incentives, seem to be gaining an increasing market share.

Range can be an issue - to do 600 miles, you'll probably need to (fully) charge most EVs at least 3-4 times. On the other hand I wonder how much that 600 miles would cost in electricity, as opposed to a tankful (80/90/100 litres?) of fuel?

Also, how many times would you drive 600 or even 500 miles without a break? So taking a break to charge isn't going to be too much of an issue - as long as the charging infrastructure keeps pace.

Towing is certainly going to be an issue for EVs as I believe you're only good for 750kg (though I may be wrong).

It's all horses for courses - EVs may not suit your current requirements but will be perfect for "last mile" deliveries and city drivers.

YMMV

 

[Dave_S]

Exactly right Grimbo - BEVs are no more than a quick fix to hit environmental targets - and only then in western (or equivalent) countries. Electric energy is not easily transportable - as a consequence it won't work in any environment without significant infrastructure - so Latam, Africa, Alaska, etc, etc... ICE will continue to remain dominant in these areas for a significant period - likely decades - until a more viable alternative that BEVs is agreed upon.

I also agree that there will be a BEV backlash - whether as a result of lithium mining, recycling issues or whatever.

But in the meantime, BEV will be pushed as the de facto standard at least in urban areas.

What's next?

Hydrogen cell, maybe, or synth fuels would be my best guess.

Hydrogen cell is already being trialled in a number of places, notably Switzerland:

Switzerland: Hydrogen Station Opens In Rümlang - FuelCellsWorks

Hydrogen (H 2 ) is the future-oriented fuel for sustainable electric mobility with short refueling times and a long range. From now on, cars and commercial

fuelcellsworks.com

... whilst a number of industrial heavy-hitters are exploring synthfuel as a way to extend ICE use - think Kawasaki, Ducati, Porsche.

 

[Towpack]

Euro 7 regs come into force in 2026. Apparently they are much more difficult and very expensive to meet. I doubt manufacturers will even bother trying if IC engined vehicle sales are to be banned 4 years later. The only petrol engined vehicles I run are fairly modern bikes which check out ok with E10 but E10 is just the start IMO.

 

[chapel gate]

zero emission transport in towns and cities has to be a good thing. im lucky enough to breath fresh clean air most of the time. even when i go into our small local town of 27000 people, i can smell and taste that shit in the air.

 

[Towpack]

Sheffield CC are wanting to introduce a LEZ in the city, as are other large towns and cities. I don't buy that the air quality in Sheffield is that bad, in fact the air is probably the cleanest it's ever been since the pre industrial era. Back in the 60's & 70's the air quality was far worse with widespread domestic coal burning, diesel engines that were really dirty (can remember many times following buses emitting clouds of black smoke) and not forgetting of course the extensive steel smelting and manufacturing industry which is now just a fraction of what it was back then.

 

[Grimbo]

Agree EV delivery vans are probably good for city centres but then so would a horse and cart as the roads are jammed and the horse is certainly greener and lower emission than an EV who's battery is full of Lithium that was mined in the most polluted places on earth by great big diesel powered plant , processed and produced some nasty pollution then the raw lithium is transported half the way round the world before becoming a battery....

As for tier or Euro 7.... absolutely correct Towpack , the very reason all the manufacturers have all tried to jump ahead of technology and go EV....it's cheaper and the government and tax regime will help them sell poor quality and unreliable EV's while also taking thousands of perfectly good vehicles off the road in Europe.... in the meantime the rest of the world will continue with IC vehicles .

ULZ's and Zero emission zones are just another tool to force people to buy new EV's ..... the science is skewed against the IC engine despite most Euro 6 engines now actually making the air out their exhaust cleaner than that was sucked into the air cleaner....

HGV EV's will require huge battery packs and to stay within 44 tons will be able to carry not much over 20 .... so the Gov are looking at raising the max weight of HGV's , seeing as running at 44 ton is destroying most UK roads what is the impact of running at circa 50 going to do to our crumbling road network ?

As for EV 4x4s and vans that can't tow more than 750kg ..... well that's thousands of people who will be penalised by fuel tax hikes , road tax increases and being unable to go about their daily work....suppose the only bonus is it will keep caravans off the road..

Hydrogen fuel cell is one of the best ways forward and CNH have had a tractor with a fuel cell running in prototype form for a decade or more....

 

[Towpack]

It's as though the whole program of "electrification" has been thought up and is being directed by the blinkered Eco brigade while those with any idea of the logistics involved and the problems it will cause are being ignored IMO.

 

[GeekOKent]

So, who wants to tell me what diesel engine in what car doesn't register on the mot ? I would like to go get one.

 

[Gary820]

A lot of cars at work (bmw) don't register on diesel test, our machine registers the temperature increase at the tailpipe so logs the test as done but the emissions reading is nothing. Mot is a smoke test though for now.

Regarding E10 I believe its the corrosion issue that effects older vehicles. I run super unleaded so ok for now.

 

[Towpack]

Ethanol eats rubber and is very hydroscopic which can be a problem, especially for vehicles which are stood for long periods. Steel petrol tanks look out!

 

[StarCruiser]

Hmmm, interesting. Looking at this from the infrastructure side, as touched on above, the electricity supply companies are now requiring permission to be sought for heat pumps being fitted. The answer to the request also takes into account any EV charging point.
Once you think about this it starts to emphasise the point that there isn’t the infrastructure, especially when there is the (crazy IMO) notion to phase out gas usage. For each house to heat electrically, the network as it stands would, at times, become overloaded. This then starts to show the real reason for insisting people fit smart meters.…ie to be able to charge high prices for peak times and lower for off-peak times, which don’t stay off-peak, cheap and lightly loaded for long after that.

 

[Towpack]

For many of the latest gen EV's, charging on a single phase domestic 240v supply is next to useless. I watched a test on a new Audi Etron RS and a 2hr charge on a 13A plug in charger added 14 miles to the range. They quote a fast charge time of 50mins from a DC150kw charge point or 14hrs for a 7kw domestic charge point. Anything higher requires the install of a 2nd phase and it's by no means certain that you will be allowed one if the grid in your area is already close to capacity. The cost of installing public fast charge points plus upgrading the grid to cope will be huge and the cost will undoubtedly be passed on, wether it's to the tax payer, the electricity consumer or the motorist and that's before you even think about the nice big fat slice of tax revenue from petrol/diesel which will gradually disappear and will need replacing. Anyone looking forward to the prospect of "cheap" EV motoring is in for a "shock".

 

[Grimbo]

A lot of cars at work (bmw) don't register on diesel test, our machine registers the temperature increase at the tailpipe so logs the test as done but the emissions reading is nothing. Mot is a smoke test though for now.

I think that's what the BIL was saying....current diesels are very very clean ...

The whole electric everything from vehicles to heating your home is ill thought out and takes no account of the huge infrastructure changes required to make it even halfway feasible...
Infrastructure that will be built and put in place by diesel powered plant and the total carbon foot print of this work will never be either published or added to the footprint of EV's etc , it's all a huge con .

The ridiculous nature of the whole environmental thing is put into perspective by our local council who proudly state they are helping the environment by getting a few EV's for workers to drive around in while at the same time allowing developers to build 3000 new houses on a farm and woodland... with another 6000 in the pipeline on two other green field sites both within ANOB's and a National Park ....

 

[Grimbo]

Ethanol eats rubber and is very hydroscopic which can be a problem, especially for vehicles which are stood for long periods. Steel petrol tanks look out!

Big issue for those of us with 1940's vehicles.... especially as they don't like the higher octane option suggested by UK Gov...

 

[StarCruiser]

6hrs to charge a Tesla over night from flat I believe (I may need to update this as it’s something a colleague has). When everyone that has an EV is charging them over night, the electricity won’t be so cheap.

 

[goodoldboy]

The ridiculous nature of the whole environmental thing is put into perspective by our local council who proudly state they are helping the environment by getting a few EV's for workers to drive around in while at the same time allowing developers to build 3000 new houses on a farm and woodland... with another 6000 in the pipeline on two other green field sites both within ANOB's and a National Park ....

The whole environmental thing as you call it is distinct from the very real issues of climate change and pollution.The fact that Governments and corporations are using these issues to cynically gouge more money from us shouldn't come as a surprise. Next up , a massive infrastructure project for charging EVs , paid for , of course by us.