End of diesel overland travelling in Europe.

[chapel gate]

My 80 shows exempt too.
I'm not quite getting this..

 

[Jacob100]

Basically it’s all bad news but as I understand it:

Any privately owned car is exempt from the LEZ. This is the ridiculously expensive charge that only applies to larger vehicles and commercials.

Any privately owned car (diesel or petrol) with Euro 4 or less emissions is currently subject to the £10/day T-charge that was introduced in 2017. The T-charge applies to the same area and operating times as the separate £12.50/day Congestion Charge.

Any privately owned car with emissions lower than Euro 4 for petrols (05-) or Euro 6 for diesels (15-) will have to pay the £12.50/day ULEZ charge that replaces the T-charge in April. Unlike the T-charge the ULEZ runs 24/7 365 days a year and will be expanded to the whole of inner London (N to S circular) in 2021.

 

[Jacob100]

As per the conversation I had with my taxi driver that I wrote about earlier.
As I understand it basically all diesels will be barred from the ULEZ, regardless of their actual emissions, but his old Bentley that does 9mpg will be fine. Go figure!!

If his RR is from 2015 onwards it should be ULEZ compliant, but the only way I can see that Bentley being free is if it’s an historic vehicle.

 

[moggy1968]

If his RR is from 2015 onwards it should be ULEZ compliant, but the only way I can see that Bentley being free is if it’s an historic vehicle.

As I understand it it’s the rules due to come in this year which effectively ban all diesels.
I haven’t looked into this myself though as it doesn’t directly affect me so don’t quote me on that!

 

[Jacob100]

There’s no ban on diesel cars.

After April you will still be able to drive any old oil burner as long as it’s for private use and you pay up.

If the taxi boss is on a late registration he’ll have no issue at all driving his Range Rover around London.

 

[chadr]

Why speculate? - all the answers to your Qs re: London ULEZ and any other info is here;

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone

1997 Toyota Landcruiser Colorado 3.4 (Petrol/LPG) - Exempt
2001 Toyota Yaris 1.3 (Petrol) - Exempt
2006 BMW 335d (Diesel) - Exempt

I'm sure, as usually with these things, they will slowly raise (lower?) the emissions criteria, to exclude more and more cars in the future. TBH, I can't see either the Beemer or the Cruiser staying on the exclusion list for long.

Last time I checked in Nov '18 (post #36) - above was the status of the 3 cars in our household and my prediction about the Beemer and Cruiser was right...because now;

1997 Toyota Landcruiser Colorado 3.4 (Petrol/LPG) - Subject to ULEZ
2001 Toyota Yaris 1.3 (Petrol) - Exempt
2006 BMW 335d (Diesel) - Subject to ULEZ

So they're obviously updating their databases, in the lead up to the ULEZ commencing.

 

[Jacob100]

I don’t think TfL have done a terribly good job at communicating these various schemes.

They all have similar names and a similar look and feel. Add to that the fact that their systems are far from accurate (my LC is still classed as Euro 4) and I can see why people who don’t drive regularly in London would be confused.

If they were serious about those children on the posters then perhaps they should keep things simple like in Paris where they just banned odd and even number plates. That would actually reduce traffic and misery rather than just extract more money from people.

 

[Scott]

.....and will be expanded to the whole of inner London (N to S circular) in 2021.

I totally disagree with the expansion and I don’t think the general public are aware of its implications on them. Plus the Mayor of London wants to bring the implementation date forward!

As far as I’m concerned the Mayor can do what he wants in central London, but expansion to the north and south circular will affect so many people. It will be a large, unplanned financial burden on all of the people who have to sell their cars as a result. The rich, well off, and those who are happy to live beyond their means paying every month to have a shiny car they will never own on the driveway are unaffected by this, but those who own their car and buy for the longer term, or those at the banger end of the market will be most affected.

What also grates with me is that you buy a vehicle in good faith, the government were advocating buying diesel via cheaper road tax, and that it helped tackle CO2, and those chose to turn a blind eye to what actually is emitted from a diesels exhaust. Now that they have seen an increase in what a comes out of a diesels exhaust, they have turned their back on diesel, and have decided to wage war on the diesel driver, you can’t read a paper or watch the news without being informed that you are a murderous social outcast.

Windback back ten years to 2009 are we saying that we were so stupid that we were manufacturing death traps? We thought we were all part of an intelligent, developed 21st century country, how did we make such errors? Money and greed that’s how.

Those in charge encourage you to spend your hard earned money buying a car, only to then say you are nasty polluter and that you should scarp your car; but you can’t afford to you have too much money invested in your motorised asset, don’t forget when this was announced in 2018 owners of cars as new as 2014 found out that they had been duped as well. So having devalued your car they are now forcing you to sell it, that doesn’t sound very fair.

Then you’re in the position that you have to buy a newer car that conforms to lastest preference of those in charge. You know the type, overpriced, built to a cost with a built in expiry date/obsolescence, and unreliability designed in. My friends and colleagues with newer cars have loads of issues with theirs and find themselves back at the main dealers, my daily driver has needed hardly anything over and above planned servicing for the past 6 years.

Who wins? The car manufacturers, the fat cats, the tax collectors, government.

Who loses? The car owner, the public (through increased costs passed on by firms having to upgrade vehicles), the small firms who go under, the smaller garages and mechanics who find their revenue stream has been scrapped and their old customers are forced into main dealer maintenance for their modern machines), the environment from the pollution generated by making new vehicles, and the wasteful process of scrapping good cars that have plenty of useful life left in them.

The aim on improving air quality is a good one, but it has been improving for years through improvements in emissions in all areas; therefore there is no need to go to such droconian methods, but vehicles reaching the end of their natural life they would be replace by cleaner vehicles. Why do we have to use tax payers money to create a legalised rack to force people to pay money in charges, lose money in forcing people to sell at a loss and buy newer at inflated cost? Greed, that’s why.

Yes vehicles pollute, but they don’t do it on their own, there are people behind the wheel. The government have been encouraging explosions in growth and over population in and around London and the south east, whilst at the same time not catering for this with improved infrastructure, so is it any surprise that we have more people trying to move around and go about their everyday lives, but the infrastructure can’t cope and that congestion and gridlock ensues. Cleaner cars will not solve this problem, and there are no plans to spend hard earned tax payer money to improve the bottlenecks on our roads. They just keep building houses on any postage stamp size land next busy roads, whilst shutting the hospitals, and not building new schools and doctors surgerys.

If those in charge were intelligent they would encourage a more balanced economy across the country, not London centric, and actively improve the out of date bottlenecks in our road infrastructure.

Oh and with the ever increasing pressure to buy electric cars, think twice about living near a power station, as the pollution doesn’t vanish, it’ll just be moved to the areas around the power stations instead. Also the controversy has already started over mining for the prescious metals the batteries require; fast forward ten years and the new unforeseen panic will be what do we do with al the old electric car batteries?

Me, I’ll run my old cars for as long as I can, and save on the pollution of building a new one. I don’t want to join today’s throw away society.

 

[clivehorridge]

I totally disagree with the expansion and I don’t think the general public are aware of its implications on them. Plus the Mayor of London wants to bring the implementation date forward!

As far as I’m concerned the Mayor can do what he wants in central London, but expansion to the north and south circular will affect so many people. It will be a large, unplanned financial burden on all of the people who have to sell their cars as a result. The rich, well off, and those who are happy to live beyond their means paying every month to have a shiny car they will never own on the driveway are unaffected by this, but those who own their car and buy for the longer term, or those at the banger end of the market will be most affected.

What also grates with me is that you buy a vehicle in good faith, the government were advocating buying diesel via cheaper road tax, and that it helped tackle CO2, and those chose to turn a blind eye to what actually is emitted from a diesels exhaust. Now that they have seen an increase in what a comes out of a diesels exhaust, they have turned their back on diesel, and have decided to wage war on the diesel driver, you can’t read a paper or watch the news without being informed that you are a murderous social outcast.

Windback back ten years to 2009 are we saying that we were so stupid that we were manufacturing death traps? We thought we were all part of an intelligent, developed 21st century country, how did we make such errors? Money and greed that’s how.

Those in charge encourage you to spend your hard earned money buying a car, only to then say you are nasty polluter and that you should scarp your car; but you can’t afford to you have too much money invested in your motorised asset, don’t forget when this was announced in 2018 owners of cars as new as 2014 found out that they had been duped as well. So having devalued your car they are now forcing you to sell it, that doesn’t sound very fair.

Then you’re in the position that you have to buy a newer car that conforms to lastest preference of those in charge. You know the type, overpriced, built to a cost with a built in expiry date/obsolescence, and unreliability designed in. My friends and colleagues with newer cars have loads of issues with theirs and find themselves back at the main dealers, my daily driver has needed hardly anything over and above planned servicing for the past 6 years.

Who wins? The car manufacturers, the fat cats, the tax collectors, government.

Who loses? The car owner, the public (through increased costs passed on by firms having to upgrade vehicles), the small firms who go under, the smaller garages and mechanics who find their revenue stream has been scrapped and their old customers are forced into main dealer maintenance for their modern machines), the environment from the pollution generated by making new vehicles, and the wasteful process of scrapping good cars that have plenty of useful life left in them.

The aim on improving air quality is a good one, but it has been improving for years through improvements in emissions in all areas; therefore there is no need to go to such droconian methods, but vehicles reaching the end of their natural life they would be replace by cleaner vehicles. Why do we have to use tax payers money to create a legalised rack to force people to pay money in charges, lose money in forcing people to sell at a loss and buy newer at inflated cost? Greed, that’s why.

Yes vehicles pollute, but they don’t do it on their own, there are people behind the wheel. The government have been encouraging explosions in growth and over population in and around London and the south east, whilst at the same time not catering for this with improved infrastructure, so is it any surprise that we have more people trying to move around and go about their everyday lives, but the infrastructure can’t cope and that congestion and gridlock ensues. Cleaner cars will not solve this problem, and there are no plans to spend hard earned tax payer money to improve the bottlenecks on our roads. They just keep building houses on any postage stamp size land next busy roads, whilst shutting the hospitals, and not building new schools and doctors surgerys.

If those in charge were intelligent they would encourage a more balanced economy across the country, not London centric, and actively improve the out of date bottlenecks in our road infrastructure.

Oh and with the ever increasing pressure to buy electric cars, think twice about living near a power station, as the pollution doesn’t vanish, it’ll just be moved to the areas around the power stations instead. Also the controversy has already started over mining for the prescious metals the batteries require; fast forward ten years and the new unforeseen panic will be what do we do with al the old electric car batteries?

Me, I’ll run my old cars for as long as I can, and save on the pollution of building a new one. I don’t want to join today’s throw away society.

 

[moggy1968]

Yep good post. And of course buy a new vehicle and that too will be made obsolete in 5 years time.
It’s the tradesmen I feel most sorry for, and those who can’t get credit or fund a new vehicle. What are they supposed to do?
I couldn’t work in London now, I work shifts so public transport isn’t a realistic option and I can’t finance a new vehicle.

 

[flint]

And some of the power for electric cars comes from places like this, apparently pumping out the same as 3 million diesel cars and bringing the stuff in from the USA, not to mention the huge subsidies:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-40963488

 

[Chas]

If it's of any help, this is the last pic I have of the current ULEZ map. Putney is inside the zone.

View attachment 153955

I've just seen another ULEZ map which puts me right in the zone from Oct 2020, so the Phoenix has to go. Any one want an expedition ready fully equipped 80?

 

[GeekOKent]

@Chas are you really over 3.5T?

 

[Higgy]

My 80 shows exempt too.
I'm not quite getting this..

I dont know if its me being thick But both my 80 and the 120 come under every chargeable scheme London has to offer... But i put a couple of random REGs in for 80s (pinched of ebay) and its 5o/50 weather they are exempt or not some are some are not. Petrol or Diesel...some members on here say there trucks are exempt... There are a fair few big 4x4s on ebay etc all from that there London..Cant blame em for wanting to get rid... Thats a great post Scott. You should e mail it straight to the Mayor of London..... Not that he will give a Toss

 

[Higgy]

My 80 shows exempt too.
I'm not quite getting this..

Out of curiosity iv just put the details in again for the 120 ... And now its showing vehicle exempt from the LEZ charges.... Or is subject to 100% discount.. AND the same for the 80. LEZ exempt....Im Puddled

 

[chadr]

LEZ or ULEZ?

For the LEZ, most LCs fall between 1.2t ULW and 3.5t GVW category - and if diesel, will be impacted if pre-2002.

More info here; https://tfl.gov.uk/forms/16063.aspx

 

[Higgy]

LEZ or ULEZ?

For the LEZ, most LCs fall between 1.2t ULW and 3.5t GVW category - and if diesel, will be impacted if pre-2002.

More info here; https://tfl.gov.uk/forms/16063.aspx

Exempt for LEZ... Both diesel... But will have to pay ULEZ come 8th of April.... But yesterday it came up with both vehicles were subject to the £200 daily charge.... I guess their site was having a glitch..

 

[chapel gate]

I dont know if its me being thick But both my 80 and the 120 come under every chargeable scheme London has to offer... But i put a couple of random REGs in for 80s (pinched of ebay) and its 5o/50 weather they are exempt or not some are some are not. Petrol or Diesel...some members on here say there trucks are exempt... There are a fair few big 4x4s on ebay etc all from that there London..Cant blame em for wanting to get rid... Thats a great post Scott. You should e mail it straight to the Mayor of London..... Not that he will give a Toss

Maybe the EGRs haven't been disconnected. .

 

[StarCruiser]

I totally disagree with the expansion and I don’t think the general public are aware of its implications on them. Plus the Mayor of London wants to bring the implementation date forward!

As far as I’m concerned the Mayor can do what he wants in central London, but expansion to the north and south circular will affect so many people. It will be a large, unplanned financial burden on all of the people who have to sell their cars as a result. The rich, well off, and those who are happy to live beyond their means paying every month to have a shiny car they will never own on the driveway are unaffected by this, but those who own their car and buy for the longer term, or those at the banger end of the market will be most affected.

What also grates with me is that you buy a vehicle in good faith, the government were advocating buying diesel via cheaper road tax, and that it helped tackle CO2, and those chose to turn a blind eye to what actually is emitted from a diesels exhaust. Now that they have seen an increase in what a comes out of a diesels exhaust, they have turned their back on diesel, and have decided to wage war on the diesel driver, you can’t read a paper or watch the news without being informed that you are a murderous social outcast.

Windback back ten years to 2009 are we saying that we were so stupid that we were manufacturing death traps? We thought we were all part of an intelligent, developed 21st century country, how did we make such errors? Money and greed that’s how.

Those in charge encourage you to spend your hard earned money buying a car, only to then say you are nasty polluter and that you should scarp your car; but you can’t afford to you have too much money invested in your motorised asset, don’t forget when this was announced in 2018 owners of cars as new as 2014 found out that they had been duped as well. So having devalued your car they are now forcing you to sell it, that doesn’t sound very fair.

Then you’re in the position that you have to buy a newer car that conforms to lastest preference of those in charge. You know the type, overpriced, built to a cost with a built in expiry date/obsolescence, and unreliability designed in. My friends and colleagues with newer cars have loads of issues with theirs and find themselves back at the main dealers, my daily driver has needed hardly anything over and above planned servicing for the past 6 years.

Who wins? The car manufacturers, the fat cats, the tax collectors, government.

Who loses? The car owner, the public (through increased costs passed on by firms having to upgrade vehicles), the small firms who go under, the smaller garages and mechanics who find their revenue stream has been scrapped and their old customers are forced into main dealer maintenance for their modern machines), the environment from the pollution generated by making new vehicles, and the wasteful process of scrapping good cars that have plenty of useful life left in them.

The aim on improving air quality is a good one, but it has been improving for years through improvements in emissions in all areas; therefore there is no need to go to such droconian methods, but vehicles reaching the end of their natural life they would be replace by cleaner vehicles. Why do we have to use tax payers money to create a legalised rack to force people to pay money in charges, lose money in forcing people to sell at a loss and buy newer at inflated cost? Greed, that’s why.

Yes vehicles pollute, but they don’t do it on their own, there are people behind the wheel. The government have been encouraging explosions in growth and over population in and around London and the south east, whilst at the same time not catering for this with improved infrastructure, so is it any surprise that we have more people trying to move around and go about their everyday lives, but the infrastructure can’t cope and that congestion and gridlock ensues. Cleaner cars will not solve this problem, and there are no plans to spend hard earned tax payer money to improve the bottlenecks on our roads. They just keep building houses on any postage stamp size land next busy roads, whilst shutting the hospitals, and not building new schools and doctors surgerys.

If those in charge were intelligent they would encourage a more balanced economy across the country, not London centric, and actively improve the out of date bottlenecks in our road infrastructure.

Oh and with the ever increasing pressure to buy electric cars, think twice about living near a power station, as the pollution doesn’t vanish, it’ll just be moved to the areas around the power stations instead. Also the controversy has already started over mining for the prescious metals the batteries require; fast forward ten years and the new unforeseen panic will be what do we do with al the old electric car batteries?

Me, I’ll run my old cars for as long as I can, and save on the pollution of building a new one. I don’t want to join today’s throw away society.

Agreed, however, if the vid I posted is anything to go by, the data collected from the air is skewed by placing the air monitoring stations at busy junctions to constantly take high readings. And according to those shown as medical professionals, there are no deaths attributable to NO2. So the driving air quality argument has been hijacked, applied in a draconian way and is now being enforced with bans.

 

[StarCruiser]

Out of curiosity iv just put the details in again for the 120 ... And now its showing vehicle exempt from the LEZ charges.... Or is subject to 100% discount.. AND the same for the 80. LEZ exempt....Im Puddled

Maybe you just picked a ‘computer says no’ day where it was having a hissy fit.