EU exit road issues

[Shayne]

You've been guaranteed fair pay, equal opportunities, and human rights. You've enjoyed clean beaches, a protected environment and better air quality. You've seen a massive reduction in domestic poverty, large funding for poor areas and a fundamental stability economically, and in national security and healthcare. You've enjoyed ease of travel, a lack of red tape and cheap holidays.

pigeonhole
ˈpɪdʒɪnhəʊl/
verb
past tense: pigeonholed; past participle: pigeonholed
1.
assign to a particular category, typically an overly restrictive one.
"I was pigeonholed as a ‘youth writer’"
synonyms: categorize, compartmentalize, classify, characterize, label, brand, tag, designate, grade, codify, sort, rank, rate
"people everywhere wish to pigeonhole you"

@chapel gate
We didn't spend half our lives in glorified schools having all common sense brainwashed out of us did we , no we are the common man and so we recognize a totalitarian regime for what it is .

Human rights wasn't about people , the EU is never about people , apart from the more customers more tax driven open door policy , it was about gaining influence over individual nations , it was profit driven , its all profit driven . And when the banker has bankrupt everybody and their survival depends on loans from him , he rules .

 

[Paddler Ed]

At first I thought it was going to be about:
1) the latest dictat on the length and curve that an exit road should have
2) the fact that they were going to ask for all the road back that EU money had been used for...

 

[moggy1968]

Warning, this will be a short rant.

I hate getting into political discussion online as it almost always ends up like talking about religion, but thought I'd flag this if you'd not seen it yet:

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-wave-of-red-tape-for-uk-drivers-and-hauliers

Not content with stripping millions of young UK people with the opportunity to live and work in 27 other countries, or stopping hardworking European people from propping up our beloved NHS, now it could end up being a total nightmare for those of us who enjoy the simple pleasure of roadtripping on the continent. Thanks a bunch.

If you voted leave, happy yet?

Owen

The second largest group of people from overseas working in the nhs are Philippine, as far as I am aware the Philippines are not in the EU. Leaving the EU will not stop people from overseas being able to apply for jobs where there is a particular skills shortage. I don’t know if any young people, let alone millions, who have gone to Europe to work. I do know people who have gone to work in America, Australia, the Middle East, etc, which aren’t in the eu. If the young people are that bothered maybe they should have dragged their lazy feckless arses out of bed or away from their computers long enough to actually vote. I have driven in west Africa, Russia, Belarus, and Canada, all on a standard UK driving license. Leaving the eu does not mean you will not be able to enjoy the simple pleasures of a continental trip.
As far as I’m aware it is already a requirement that you have a driving license for the country you live in, as a number of Spanish residents have been finding out recently.
The eu has not maintained peace in Europe. We are currently facing the worst violence seen in Europe since the Second World War, and that can be directly traced back to the isolationist policies of the eu.
It’s just more hysterical inaccurate scaremongering bollocks.
Get a fucking grip!!

 

[froggy Steve]

I remember driving through a Belgium village and seeing rats in the street.

I remember driving through London and seeing the same!

 

[Rob Cowell]

The eu has not maintained peace in Europe. We are currently facing the worst violence seen in Europe since the Second World War, and that can be directly traced back to the isolationist policies of the eu.
It’s just more hysterical inaccurate scaremongering bollocks.
Get a fucking grip!!

Almost as if the Hungarian Revolution, Croatian Independence, Kosovo, Bosnia, and Northern Ireland never happened.

 

[moggy1968]

Almost as if the Hungarian Revolution, Croatian Independence, Kosovo, Bosnia, and Northern Ireland never happened.

I was going to go into that but decided my post was long enough!! Not to mention that a British soldier has died on active operations every year bar 2 since ww2

 

[froggy Steve]

The EU 'in or out' debate is one of the most hotly contested things I have ever known. The IN side did sod all to promote why we should stay in, whilst the OUT side lied and continue to do so. OK the public has decided to stick to the out side. Are the government ready? nope. I think they really and truly do not know how (if) its going to work. Clueless.
As for taking control of the boarders, the UK is the only country in Europe I have ever been stopped at - every time I go back I get stopped as Passport control, boat, plane, chunnel every time. It appears you have always had control of the boarders. So that argument is out. Laws from unelected officials? Nope, the UK votes for MEP's so thats out too. Europe is an ideal, a bit like communism, but that doesnt work (greedy people). EU must change, but you cant change it if your not in the club. Churchills dream was for a United States of Europe - its nearly there, just needs a bit of tweaking.
My parents voted out. I live and work in France. Thanks for that. Mother went mental on my last (final) visit to UK cos I said David Davis hasnt a clue. We have hardly spoken since. Sad really.

 

[clivehorridge]

Almost as if the Hungarian Revolution, Croatian Independence, Kosovo, Bosnia, and Northern Ireland never happened.

Absolutely, I’m not sure where all this war-free talk comes from, either.

The EU (including the UK) sat back and watched the atrocities going on in Croatia, Bosnia and the locale, and did absolutely zip.

Then Blair jumped on the Bush wagon spouting about morals and human rights in Iraq FFS and between them they screwed up the whole of the Middle East.

I’m all in favor of an EU for trade (it started as a common market, the word Europe wasn’t mentioned) and I like the cooperative and uniform approach to border crossings and legislative administration, but as far as government is concerned, the Italians, the French the brits and whatever, want something home grown.

It’s the concept of the USE that has frightened the Brits to vote Brexit IMO, not what shape bananas are in the shops.

JMH as ever...

 

[flint]

The political and social motivations behind those who helped or financed the brexit campaign are worrying. Firms like SCL Group, Cambridge Analytica, Palantir, AggregateIQ, and people like Robert Mercer, Peter Thiel, Nigel Oakes etc., what's their interest ? It's alarming what targeted, sometimes almost subliminal, information (or misinformation) can achieve. It doesn't really matter if ones thinking is to the left or right, when democracy is seemingly being manipulated by unelected forces, alarm bells should start ringing loud and clear.

 

[moggy1968]

The political and social motivations behind those who helped or financed the brexit campaign are worrying. Firms like SCL Group, Cambridge Analytica, Palantir, AggregateIQ, and people like Robert Mercer, Peter Thiel, Nigel Oakes etc., what's their interest ? It's alarming what targeted, sometimes almost subliminal, information (or misinformation) can achieve. It doesn't really matter if ones thinking is to the left or right, when democracy is seemingly being manipulated by unelected forces, alarm bells should start ringing loud and clear.

You mean like all those vested interests within the eu, where policy and legislation are a dictated by large companies lobbying behind closed doors. Anyone who thinks the eu is a democratic organisation is deluded, a fool, or a deluded fool. MEPs have virtually no executive authority and the whole organisation is run on a ‘we know best what’s good for the people’ mentality. Yes, Churchill had a dream for a United Europe, this wasnt it. The current eu can trace its roots back to the desires of the French post war and specifically de Gaulle (who was rampantly anti British) to further their own colonial influence whilst destroying the British empire. That’s why de Gaulle kept us out of it until his death. The eu started from French self interest and that is very much still it’s raison d’etre, although now Germany economic power means they have a significant influence. The uk has always been the black sheep, tolerated but not really wanted. Our principal problem now is they want to give us a good spanking for daring to leave to discourage others from doing the same (a characteristic of abusive relationships) and we have a government that couldn’t negotiate their way out of a wet paper bag. We need tough people at the top, and we don’t have them.

 

[Chas]

I remember driving through London and seeing the same!

Brooklyn, New York too.

 

[Rob Cowell]

I was going to go into that but decided my post was long enough!! Not to mention that a British soldier has died on active operations every year bar 2 since ww2

So Europe is at its most violent since WW2 apart from all the stuff you know about but didn’t want to mention? Right, OK.

 

[MarkW]

Heaven forbid any facts come into the debate Rob!

 

[flint]

You mean like all those vested interests within the eu, where policy and legislation are a dictated by large companies lobbying behind closed doors

How does that differ from the present UK government and why is it likely to change if we leave the EU ? My point was that mass manipulation is a dangerous thing. Using information gleaned from internet usage (Google, Facebook etc.) and other sources, finding a weakness in a nations society, and presenting misinformation as truth to exploit it smacks of fascism to me. The people I mentioned are not middle thinking benefactors.

 

[moggy1968]

How does that differ from the present UK government and why is it likely to change if we leave the EU ? My point was that mass manipulation is a dangerous thing. Using information gleaned from internet usage (Google, Facebook etc.) and other sources, finding a weakness in a nations society, and presenting misinformation as truth to exploit it smacks of fascism to me. The people I mentioned are not middle thinking benefactors.

That sounds a lot like most of the information remain supporters used! You see, the trap your falling into there is a common one with remain supporters, that anyone who voted leave must be a thick racist facist incapable of researching something beyond what they get from facetwatter or some other social media. The best bit is your using that argument to support a piece of ‘news’ in a notoriously unreliable rag of the notoriously unreliable British media! Hardly primaface factual evidence is it?
The principle difference with the uk government, is we vote for them, other than that, I agree the whole political system is corrupt and full of self interest, but I would rather be screwed by a corrupt self interested uk government that I can actually put a name to than some faceless bureaucrat behind a closed door in Brussels.

 

[moggy1968]

So Europe is at its most violent since WW2 apart from all the stuff you know about but didn’t want to mention? Right, OK.

Yes. But someone else has kindly covered those, which was the post I was responding to, so I’m not quite sure what your point is, or isn’t.
Or do you think all the terror attacks of the last 15 years or so represent a peaceful Europe?

 

[flint]

You see, the trap your falling into there is a common one with remain supporters, that anyone who voted leave must be a thick racist facist incapable of researching something beyond what they get from facetwatter or some other social media.

Please enlighten me, where do you get the information that you base your comments on ?

 

[moggy1968]

Please enlighten me, where do you get the information that you base your comments on ?

Daily sport, how about you?

 

[flint]

I was being serious.

 

[moggy1968]

I was being serious.

Ok, how about the sun, is that better (probably more credible than the guardian though!)
As with all good research, it came from a variety of sources. Books, journals, press, internet (yes that dreaded bogeyman, but as with all research, you check the source data and evaluated its credibility before considering it)
It’s worth noting, I started out remain. It was doing the research that led me to change.
How about you?