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EU exit road issues

I don’t know why I’m getting so much sarcasm and defensiveness about this. Perhaps it should be moved to Politics and Religion ?

As an example, “fact” given by privately educated, ex city boy, beer drinking and fag smoking (at least when cameras are about) man of the people, Nigel Farage and followers (helped with US very right wing multi billionaire friend Mercer and co’s money) re weekly payments to the EU before the referendum. £350 million (which has since been retracted after declaring that it would go towards the NHS).

£350m weekly works out to about £18 billion a year.

Less rebate (which Brussels never receives) of just under £5 billion. Money back to UK, including donation to private sector and allowance for aid spending, about £6.8 billion. Actual cost of membership, roughly about £6½ billion, or around £120m a week, a third of the figure quoted (based on 2015 figures). Projected cost of leaving EU, unknown, but probably many times £6½ billion. Cost of trade agreement (like Norway has) or other incentives if we leave the single market to try to keep multi national businesses here, again probably many billions. Doesn’t leave much for the NHS (if not privatised by then, and more contracts given to healthcare and insurance companies) or for improving the lot of the population, even if the UK government do actually pass on any savings, much as they haven't invested sufficient in housing. The full costs of leaving won't be known until we do actually leave.

I won’t go on, but many other “facts” given as reasons to leave the EU don’t bear close inspection. If the intention was indeed to divide the country, the investment made by the super rich (who don’t tend to throw money about without expecting some sort of return) has paid off.

Just to add, the farms round here are mainly dairy and livestock including sheep. Not huge conglomerates, family farms where the profits don't allow enough to keep family members (many of who have moved away or taken other jobs) on as labour. The loss of agency workers is already causing problems to some and the uncertainty over future subsidies or cheap imports is a real headache. Much EU grant money has gone on improvements to infrastructure and other social improvements in the area.
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Once again the £350m a week to the NHS is torn apart - insulting the intelligence of at least 17.5 million people who are sensible enough to recognize Red Bull doesn't actually give you wings , its anecdotal you see , it's .................. oh never mind , there ain't no point in talking when there's nobody listening :confusion-shrug:
 
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re weekly payments to the EU before the referendum. £350 million (which has since been retracted after declaring that it would go towards the NHS).
As I understood it the £350m was to be given to, amongst other things, THINGS LIKE THE NHS, not all to the NHS.
But what do I know? they're all liars.
 
For what it's worth, thanks to everyone who's contributed to the thread, regardless of which way you voted.

I may not agree with some of what's been said, but I respect you all for taking the time to chip in and have your say.

Ultimately, despite the division (and derision!) the referendum caused, you're all here because you have a fine taste in vehicles, so maybe we're all closer than we think!

Owen
 
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Once again the £350m a week to the NHS is torn apart - insulting the intelligence of at least 17.5 million people who are sensible enough to recognize Red Bull doesn't actually give you wings , its anecdotal you see , it's .................. oh never mind , there ain't no point in talking when there's nobody listening :confusion-shrug:
Great post shane.
 
I really don’t want to kick this all off again, but for some reason I feel the need to defend my comments. The meaning of the word anecdotal : “based on someones personal experience or information rather than on facts that can be checked”. What I wrote is checkable, not taken from some politically biased site such as Robin Shepherds The Commentator or The Guardian. Shayne asked for some “facts”, so that was what I tried to give. I’m sure there’s been truths, half truths, lies and deception on both sides of the argument, I was and am not trying to insult anyones intelligence.
 
I had hoped to draw a line under it all, but you had to keep the fire stoked with that link, eh.

As the aftermath of WW1 proved, it took the best part of 20 years before countries had recovered enough to consider entering another world war.

With all respect to anyone who lost anyone in any conflict in the last 40 years, any of the skirmishes mentioned above (Balkans, Northern Ireland, etc), they aren't in the same league as the death and destruction of WW2.

One huge reason why there hasn't been another world war is the importance of the global economy. Having countries financially integrated is a big incentive to not drop bombs on each other. It's not rocket science.

The only world wars we've had have been in Europe. Since the European Union was created, its members have ceased talking about wars of conquest and started talking about trade, growing economies, improving standards of living and quality of life. This has kept you safe.

There will always be civil wars, coups, religious fanaticism and opportunist terrorism. But thanks to the benefits of the EU, you've not been conscripted to defend your country against the attacks of its members states.

But anyway, fuck it, I'm not going to bang my head against this any longer, and I thoroughly regret starting the thread.

It boggles my mind how people can be so divisive, aggressive and relish the chance to throw away 50 years of progress.

Owen
 
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One of the reasons given for leaving was so we could make our own laws. They might have told us that even before we would leave the laws we did not like would be enshrined in our system.

The EU reigned in Roaming charges and Credit card use charges. Small but very annoying practices.

I don't think we will leave.
 
The only world wars we've had have been in Europe. Since the European Union was created, its members have ceased talking about wars of conquest and started talking about trade, growing economies, improving standards of living and quality of life. This has kept you safe.

There will always be civil wars, coups, religious fanaticism and opportunist terrorism. But thanks to the benefits of the EU, you've not been conscripted to defend your country against the attacks of its members states.
Owen

The ‘World’ Wars were only in Europe because of the distances involved in spreading them further, the word ‘world’ only referred to the nations involved in the fighting, not where it took place.

Weaponry has changed drastically since those days

Just wait until the religious fanatics or those who want to disrupt economies get hold of ICBM’s
The possibilities exist already, (North Korea for instance)
 
Guys i accept and respect your personal opinions , I actually disagree with very few of the arguments for Remain yet i voted out and i will again and again as will millions of others . The key to this whole issue is the why .

It's not a personal matter and so if we can't discuss it without falling into argument then what hope is there .

The issues with the EU , while in themselves very simple, are so numerous that combined they form a web so complex nobody can decipher it , and so we trust our instinct and our instinct tells us globalization has no conscience .

"there ain't no point in talking when there's nobody listening" is a statement that will be swept aside without a glance by Remainer's , the majority however will find something very profound in those same words .
 
Just to repeat myself, 'cause I'm like that being old and, um, er, ah yes, forgetful.....and just to lighten it up a bit....

Whether you were for Brexit or Bremain these notes may prove useful guidance to keeping you sane.

Leaving a cult is never an easy decision but by the time you have reached it, it's likely that you've thought long and hard and you're prepared.

Ten steps to success:

Step 1 - Recognise that you're in an abusive group. In some places these are called "cults"; in others, "sects", "fundamentalist" groups or the “European Union”. Cults generally involve aggressive misinformation or misinterpretation ("brainwashing"), self-aggrandisement and even worship of a leader or group of leaders, isolation from and disrespect of outsiders, and undermining member states' self-esteem.

Step 2 - Think through the reasons that cause you to want to leave the cult. Are any of these reasons based on abuse, oppression, lack of freedom of thought, speech or social mobility? If so, consider seeking help from the Supreme Court who can intervene where laws are being broken.

Step 3 - Plan your departure. If you're in a cult that lives in a compound or is part of a ‘single market’, you might be planning an escape rather than a mere departure. Where this is the case, you'll need to plan very carefully and take any possible opportunity that arises to leave. Either have your bag stuffed with cash and carefully stowed away, or simply be prepared to forget any possessions and get ready to go at a moment's notice.

Step 4 - Leave. If you're getting away in a hurry from a long established cult or organisation, use opportunities such as when people visit (jump into a blacked out limo with foreign dignitaries when they leave), when you are taken somewhere else outside the compound, when others in your compound decide to make a break for it at the same time (if you know that you can trust them).

Step 5 - Try to have a place to stay in mind in advance. If you've left a live-in cult arrangement, you'll need a safe place to stay. Consider Switzerland, Norway, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Serbia, Kosovo, Albania, Macedonia, Ukraine, Moldova, Iceland, Belarus, Russia and Turkey. Family, friends, refuges (shelters), or even the Embassy of Ecuador may also be able to help. A fully kitted out Land Cruiser may also be beneficial.

Step 6 - Be prepared for recriminations and attempts to get you back. Cultists tend to despise those who break ranks and threaten to expose what is really happening inside the cult. You will be viewed as a traitor and as someone who might be worth vilifying and telling lies about. You’ll be told that you can never make it alone, that there’s no life outside the group and that only economic downfall can ensue with a dose of end of the world scenarios. Be prepared for this possibility. Alternately, they might seek to get you back by telling you that you're confused, that you cannot survive outside the group, that the evil from the outside has infected you, and that you need to return to be cleansed and restored. The important thing is to stand firm in believing that your choice to move on is right and that they might try anything. If you're afraid that they might try to physically take you back, seek protection. Finally, be prepared for excommunication and no further word.

Step 7 - Remain strong in your convictions and beliefs. Your faith will be tested. You might want to read spiritual texts, read a variety of books with different interpretations of those spiritual texts, and visit other religious groups. It is probably best to avoid I.S. on health grounds though. It can also help to read about the experiences of other people who have broken away from cults to draw strength from how they coped with it. Do not read mainstream publications such as The Guardian, The Daily Mail, The Sun, the Telegraph or Express. All of these have their own agenda and lies and will try to poison and confuse you.

Step 8 - Seek support from other people. Many people are sympathetic even if they don't understand the challenges facing those who exit a cult. Sometimes you might also need the help of an expert who specialises in reframing the lives of those who have experienced a cult lifestyle. If you've been under a lot of cult indoctrination expect some emotional withdraw. Talk with people who are not involved with the cult. Nationals from Switzerland, Norway, Iceland or Ukraine may help you remain focused and this will let you get accustomed to life as a non-cult member.

Step 9 - Continue journeying; preferably in a Toyota. Eventually you will be able to talk with others about your experiences and this might even translate to being able to help others in a similar bind. There are support networks online for people who have left cults; you might want to tap into those resources to share stories and spread support. In terms of your own journey, remain open-minded. The choice of some people to turn beliefs into cultish behaviours and narrow-minded self-absorption is the exception rather than the rule.

Step 10 – Remain calm, drink tea, and carry on. Think the bridge will be there and it will be there. It’s a mother, beautiful bridge, and it’s gonna be there. Ok?

Also, just cause I like an honest to God debate,
The only world wars we've had have been in Europe.Owen
???

Guys, they were called 'World Wars' because essentially they eventually involved almost the entire world in these f*cked up shenanigans. The theatre of operations was not restricted to the European continent. Have you not read any history books? Sheesh :)
 
Guys, they were called 'World Wars' because essentially they eventually involved almost the entire world in these f*cked up shenanigans. The theatre of operations was not restricted to the European continent. Have you not read any history books? Sheesh :)
Yes I have read history books Bert, I suppose I could have done a little research and listed every nation and every theatre of operations that was involved but that post would have been so long no one would have bothered to read it, I was generalising, did you not get that?
 
Yes I have read history books Bert, I suppose I could have done a little research and listed every nation and every theatre of operations that was involved but that post would have been so long no one would have bothered to read it, I was generalising, did you not get that?
Apologies Chas....
 
United Cruiser-Land...

Quite like the sound of that.

Everyone should have one, if not you pay a tax.

Cruiser owners would be completely tax free...

No matter if you are Leave or Remain, IN or OUT, RHD or LHD, Petrol or Diesel - the world's going to keep revolving and LCs need to be on the road and us all having fun.

20180214_174156.jpg
 
The world wars weren’t just in Europe, that’s why they were called ‘world wars’ not European wars. You’ve obviously forgotten about the Japanese marching through Asia, even threatening the Australian continent.
The Balkans saw genocide once again on an industrial scale. It wasn’t a minor war.
The eu is not about developing global trade, it is the complete antithesis of that, actively preventing that in order to try and artificial prop up their own uncompetitive industries (French farming for example). The principal reason for inviting in new countries from Eastern Europe is because the major eu players see it as another market to sell their products to, and by tying them into the eu with promises of short term subsidies they can do that and prevent them from trading with other countries.
I don’t read the commentator, tbh a lot of what’s in there is rabid brexit nonsense and I’m not that interested in that from either side, I prefer a
More balanced , reasoned and researched case, but I saw that and it grabbed my attention because of the recent statements on here about the existential ability of the eu to maintain peace in Europe (sic) for the last 70 odd years.
I’m glad you regret starting this thread. I hope you remember that before posting such politically sensitive bollocks again.
Enjoy;)
 
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This thread is not really what the forum is for. It makes the reciprients look divided and goes against what the forum is about....

I was going to voice my view.... but it's not really worth it! I don't want to insult anyone and I have my life to lead!

What ever happens with this..... they better do a good job of it as "WE" as residence's have to live here.

One last thing.. we went on a 450 mile drive in my 81 last weekend and I can not understand why why why British people throw all their rubbish out of the windows of their vehicles??? Because it makes the country look like a shit hole????

Happy Brexit!
 
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