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Excessive play in transfer box KZJ90
- Thread starter Shayne
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There may be light at the end of the tunnel here Dave .
The diff flange had a bit more play than the tbox flange but i didn't feel it was cause for concern so i shook my head and the two grey cells in there bounced together reminding me to have a look at the removed prop .
It wasn't solid but i felt it needed more effort than it should to compress so i removed the grease nipple and pulled it apart . Lots of grease in there perhaps too much and with it pissing down with rain anyway i thought sod it and blasted it out with a pressure washer . Wiped it dry and slotted it back together and it was still tight . So pulled it apart to find more grease
Long story short the prop now has an inch more slide action and a quick lap around the block ("get in this bloody house and eat your tea" still ringing in my ears
) I think this thread might end up being downgraded to the old "dash rattle" problem .
The diff flange had a bit more play than the tbox flange but i didn't feel it was cause for concern so i shook my head and the two grey cells in there bounced together reminding me to have a look at the removed prop .
It wasn't solid but i felt it needed more effort than it should to compress so i removed the grease nipple and pulled it apart . Lots of grease in there perhaps too much and with it pissing down with rain anyway i thought sod it and blasted it out with a pressure washer . Wiped it dry and slotted it back together and it was still tight . So pulled it apart to find more grease
Long story short the prop now has an inch more slide action and a quick lap around the block ("get in this bloody house and eat your tea" still ringing in my ears
) I think this thread might end up being downgraded to the old "dash rattle" problem .
That looks like quite a bit of backlash to me Shayne, 10mm one end plus 10 to 20mm the other equals a fair bit that needs taking up. The thing to do perhaps maybe to pull the prop off your truck and check that as a known non clunking truck. I wouldn't mind betting it's far less. Also, when rotating the transfer box flange, was any of that backlash coming from beyond it, I.e. In the rear prop and diff?
I'm not sure whether or not it would be a good move but perhaps thicker oil may help? I would wait for someone who knows more about these things to comment but I do know such things were available for worn gearboxes as pretty much treacle.
I'm not sure whether or not it would be a good move but perhaps thicker oil may help? I would wait for someone who knows more about these things to comment but I do know such things were available for worn gearboxes as pretty much treacle.
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The slack in the two flanges looks normal to me. There are so many points at which slack can be introduced into the transmission that it is never going to be tight.
My LWB '95' has about the same and there is a bit of a clunk when taking up the drive but when I stripped the Transfer box it was fine inside, though with 136,000 miles on the clock there is going to be some wear. I just live with it as it would cost a fortune to replace every possibly worn component seeking a perfectly tight transmission. The truck is only worth around £2.5K (if that) so not an economic proposition.
Bob.
My LWB '95' has about the same and there is a bit of a clunk when taking up the drive but when I stripped the Transfer box it was fine inside, though with 136,000 miles on the clock there is going to be some wear. I just live with it as it would cost a fortune to replace every possibly worn component seeking a perfectly tight transmission. The truck is only worth around £2.5K (if that) so not an economic proposition.
Bob.
…or alternately, instead of pulling your truck apart, see the above post. 
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After a better test dive the problem is still there so i took the front prop off again and realized it gets air locked .
The is some sort of seal in the shaft that meets the slide part of the yoke and i think its deteriorated and absorbing grease , the seal looks furry for want of a better word and with lots of messing about with degreaser and white spirits and boiling water and anything i else i could think of that might dissolve grease and doesn't
i did eventually get just a little soapy water to bubble passed the seal eventually .
I have decided to burn the seal if it ever stops raining .
The is some sort of seal in the shaft that meets the slide part of the yoke and i think its deteriorated and absorbing grease , the seal looks furry for want of a better word and with lots of messing about with degreaser and white spirits and boiling water and anything i else i could think of that might dissolve grease and doesn't
i did eventually get just a little soapy water to bubble passed the seal eventually . I have decided to burn the seal if it ever stops raining .
diggerdave
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Hi Shayne. I've parked this one at the moment. I am convinced that my problem is either excess backlash at the front diff or a problem with the transfer box or both.
I actually bought a second-hand transfer box, intending to fit it and see. However, despite working fine at the time I bought it I seem to have forced the transfer lever too far forward somehow so, while it shifts happily between L and H, the diff lock is stuck in locked. I'm in the process of stripping it and found that it looks pretty yucky inside (honestly do people not realise you have to change the ****ing oil!?), although all the bearings seem ok in my inexperienced judgement. If I successfully get it back together (big if
) I may try putting it on to replace mine, at least just to test (and to prevent it just being an expensive reason to make a flange-holder-tool and buy a 1/2" breaker bar and 30mm socket). Incidentally, removing the staked nuts on the flanges was made a lot easier by having a 7' long scaffold pole available. Even then it took some muscle.
However, with the 'new' TC's centre diff locked (whether I want it or not
) on the bench, the difference between the backlash of the two output flanges is exactly the same as mine. This leads me to think that mine is probably ok and that the problem is actually the front diff having excessive backlash...
On my vehicle, there is a certain amount more backlash at the front diff flange than there is at the rear diff flange. I don't know whether that is just to be expected? There is bound to be a bit of extra movement in the front drive shafts compared with the rear half shafts.
Until I recover my enthusiasm (or find a known good, cheap 4.1:1 R16 front diff) I'm in the BobMurphy position of just living with it as I have for the past two years. I've just today put thicker (85/140) oil in the front diff to see if that softens the shunt as suggested by StarCruiser. I don't know if it will work and haven't given it a good road test yet (though I gather it's usually a fix for noisy worn components not slack ones).
Apologies for the essay, but you did ask!
I actually bought a second-hand transfer box, intending to fit it and see. However, despite working fine at the time I bought it I seem to have forced the transfer lever too far forward somehow so, while it shifts happily between L and H, the diff lock is stuck in locked. I'm in the process of stripping it and found that it looks pretty yucky inside (honestly do people not realise you have to change the ****ing oil!?
), although all the bearings seem ok in my inexperienced judgement. If I successfully get it back together (big if) I may try putting it on to replace mine, at least just to test (and to prevent it just being an expensive reason to make a flange-holder-tool and buy a 1/2" breaker bar and 30mm socket). Incidentally, removing the staked nuts on the flanges was made a lot easier by having a 7' long scaffold pole available. Even then it took some muscle.However, with the 'new' TC's centre diff locked (whether I want it or not
) on the bench, the difference between the backlash of the two output flanges is exactly the same as mine. This leads me to think that mine is probably ok and that the problem is actually the front diff having excessive backlash...On my vehicle, there is a certain amount more backlash at the front diff flange than there is at the rear diff flange. I don't know whether that is just to be expected? There is bound to be a bit of extra movement in the front drive shafts compared with the rear half shafts.
Until I recover my enthusiasm (or find a known good, cheap 4.1:1 R16 front diff) I'm in the BobMurphy position of just living with it as I have for the past two years. I've just today put thicker (85/140) oil in the front diff to see if that softens the shunt as suggested by StarCruiser. I don't know if it will work and haven't given it a good road test yet (though I gather it's usually a fix for noisy worn components not slack ones).
Apologies for the essay, but you did ask!
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I still struggle to accept my own diagnoses of the problems i have but a just this evening i was searching for any mention of a similar propshaft problem on the web when i chanced upon the term "hydrolock" put landcruiser in front of that and search google 
diggerdave
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I've come across this before when I had a different vehicle (Trooper). The theory is: people are so scared of overfilling the sliding yoke with grease that they don't grease it enough OR there is a problem like a hardened seal/internals clogged up with old, hardened grease. The result is no lubrication on the splines, which 'stick' (or possibly wear), resulting in a clunk when taking up drive.
I just don't think that would be sufficient to explain my quite hefty driveline shunt. When I stripped the propshaft recently there was grease on the splines, although I admit I didn't do any other checks, nor did I apply grease directly to the splines like the FSM says (I thought 'some' was enough). Also, no play in the splines that I could feel by hand - everything was very tight.
However, it's another possibility to add to the list, and it's cheap. I will re-strip it at some point and examine more closely. It'll be after next weekend's laning trip to Northumberland though!
I just don't think that would be sufficient to explain my quite hefty driveline shunt. When I stripped the propshaft recently there was grease on the splines, although I admit I didn't do any other checks, nor did I apply grease directly to the splines like the FSM says (I thought 'some' was enough). Also, no play in the splines that I could feel by hand - everything was very tight.
However, it's another possibility to add to the list, and it's cheap. I will re-strip it at some point and examine more closely. It'll be after next weekend's laning trip to Northumberland though!
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If you pull the selector shafts too far forward (easy to do with the box on the bench) the detent ball and spring jump in behind the shaft and you can't push it back.
You have to undo the plugs at the top rear of the box . . . .
Extract the spring and ball (a small, strong magnet, with a screwdriver, works wonders) . . .
Then reset the shafts and put the ball(s) and spring(s) back.
Warning, while the plugs are out and the selector shafts are too far forward, DON'T let the Interlock Plunger fall out, or you will have to start over again
.
Hope this helps
.Bob.
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My theory is it slides for a reason and the engine , the front and rear diff should be allowed to move independently of each if only a little or else they wouldn't be on rubber mounts .
I said early on in this thread its like king kong smacking the chassis with a rubber sledge hammer
Why would shaft splines be subject to regular maintenance (grease) if they were supposed to be air tight ? the original grease could never escape .
I'm gonna search through my max ellery tomorrow i bet the splines should be greased with something other than the general purpose stuff we all use on uj's .
I said early on in this thread its like king kong smacking the chassis with a rubber sledge hammer
Why would shaft splines be subject to regular maintenance (grease) if they were supposed to be air tight ? the original grease could never escape .
I'm gonna search through my max ellery tomorrow i bet the splines should be greased with something other than the general purpose stuff we all use on uj's .
diggerdave
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Bob, many thanks. I was already aware of this from your previous posts on the other side (which I've read and re-read!). That actually wasn't the problem though I fully expected it to be. The selector shaft had just moved a little bit further forward than it should have done (not far enough for the detent ball or the jellybean to fall behind it) and was seized in position. Since I didn't think forcing it was a good idea I went for stripdown, and once free of the housing everything seems to work ok, the shaft moves, the spring compress and difflock engages/disengages. What's odd is that the shaft had moved too far forward, which should have disengaged diff lock, but it hadn't. So I'm still unsure . Hopefully it'll still work properly once/if I get everything back together.
I might need your advice if I get stuck on the rebuild!
. Hopefully it'll still work properly once/if I get everything back together.I might need your advice if I get stuck on the rebuild!
diggerdave
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Shayne, without question the splines need to be lubed. One US forum member recommends using moly grease rather than standard MP.
diggerdave
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...although I've just double-checked the Toyota FSM and that says MP grease should be used. I can't imagine using moly grease would do any harm though.
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Ah but the point I was trying to make about greasing the prop is it must by design be intended to leak .
If i seperate mine the put the grease nipple back in it takes most of my body weight to force the yoke in and if I let go it will push itself back out . This is with almost no grease in it . Compressed air .
I am pretty sure it shouldn't be that tight because instead of absorbing shock it's acting like a ram trying to push the diff and transfer apart .
If i seperate mine the put the grease nipple back in it takes most of my body weight to force the yoke in and if I let go it will push itself back out . This is with almost no grease in it . Compressed air .
I am pretty sure it shouldn't be that tight because instead of absorbing shock it's acting like a ram trying to push the diff and transfer apart .
Spooky, I was just wondering who won the battle of the shafting…
At least you know it's not the front prop shaft.
I do think there is some merit in putting the iPad underneath pointed at specific things and run it against the brakes again. Top wishbone bushes seems a reasonable thought, I wound expect the clonk to also happen under heavy braking if it were that.
At least you know it's not the front prop shaft.
I do think there is some merit in putting the iPad underneath pointed at specific things and run it against the brakes again. Top wishbone bushes seems a reasonable thought, I wound expect the clonk to also happen under heavy braking if it were that.
