Front axle seals & birfs

[grantw]

After Lincomb and doing some mild off road it become very apparent that I need to replace at least my left side birfield. After seeing the very scary prices of the OEM ones it leads me to the after market.So a few quick questions:

- From reading about it looks like the Milners birfields are of reasonable quality atm with a few of you guys running them? I will be replacing these with OEM ones before I do any crazy overlanding ... but just can't afford it currently
- What is the best path for a seal kit and swivel hub and wheel bearings? Milners seem to be a no go for this, but what about the rough trax kit + bearings?

Thanks

 

[Roger Fairclough]

I fitted a Milners CV joint to my KZJ70 a few years ago.

No problems.

Roger

 

[grantw]

Thanks for the comment Roger.

 

[Mark01]

When i did a rebuild on the front axle of my truck i bought the seal kit from Toyota and the bearings from milners as they were koyo ones and i didnt think the price was too bad.
I cant help you with the birfs as i have not had to change any yet.

Cheers, Mark

 

[Lorin]

Grant, I fitted Milners CVs with a full axle rebuild approx 5000 miles ago and one failed at Lincomb just gently driving around. Whilst the cost of genuine is high it does make you wonder whether Milners are worth touching at all. There was some talk a while back on the forum about HDK CVs which IIRC were considered to be of better quality. May be worth a search...

 

[ModelMakerMan]

Someone mentioned you can get 80 series birfields from Roughtrax but I have only seen 70 series bifs on the website. The 70 birfs from there have a good reputation for being OE quality at a fraction of the cost, the seal kits are usually genuine too. Maybe give them a call?

 

[grantw]

Thanks guys will make the call.

Hopefully their seal kit is genuine too.

 

[Roger Fairclough]

If you can get Koyo bearings from Milners, then, as long as the price is OK, buy them. I personally buy Timken bearings from my local commercial bearing stockist and they are usually very competitive on price and Timken are easily as good on quality. There are other high quality bearings from European sources but I would personally steer clear of Chinese bearings as they are usually unmarked (apart from "made in China") and are usually classed as a "budget" option. For standard seals, such as hubs, then again a bearing stockist will be able to supply but the specialist seals such as the one inside the axle tube that separates the diff oil from the hub grease, then either O.E. or the specialist market type (ask Big Dave about the ones he got from the USA) are needed.

Roger

 

[adrianr]

Ive done 100,000 odd miles on milner cv - i strip clean regrease every 30-35000 miles. no problems yet. though i only do light off road work. not like you of the lincomb fraternity

 

[grantw]

All of the Milner seals are described as MUSASHI (JAPAN) ... are these up to the job or should I just get genuine? Their bearings are all described as Koyo as well

 

[ModelMakerMan]

Dont bother with Milner seals, they are crap! A number of us have used them in the past and regretted it when they failed very quickly meaning having to do the same job twice to replace the seal with a better/genuine one.

 

[Cptsideways]

The Milners seals appears to last only a few weeks!!!

 

[Roger Fairclough]

Normally I would agree with the comments re: Milners seals but if you google Mushashi seals, it comes up with a company, that on the face of it, may be supplying decent stuff.

Who wants to be first to try it?

Roger

 

[Chris]

I fitted two HDK Milner ones and they are now both in the bin along with the other parts that were destroyed when they exploded. I'd fit them on a daily drive vehicle but never again for anything remotely off road. They are very soft and in my view they distort. I tried to saw one and it cut like butter.

Best of the cheapness maybe but still cheap. Now I run Longfields.

Chris

 

[Gary820]

Has anyone used the seals from roughtrax or is it genuine all the way?
Going to be doing my seals soon and give everything a good overhaul. Don't think it's ever been touched looking through invoices that came with it.

 

[grantw]

@Roger ... not quite game enough to experiment on seals on my first shot at this. So looks like genuine it is (still need to call rough trax)

I wish the birfield/cv joint question wasn't so hard.

Milner - cheap and break easy off road. Not seeing this as an option even for very short term.
Longfields - expensive but from all reports they wear out quickly
Toyota - Best option but crazily expensive.


Does any one know anything about these options:
http://www.trail-gear.com/landcruiser-birfields - offering a no questions asked life time warranty. But "Some minor clearancing of the knuckle may be required." Is a little worrying. They also do a 27 spline one but I don't think that comes with the same warranty.

Cruiser parts http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Landcruiser-LX450-CV-Joint-Birfield-Joint-1991-1997-Lifetime-Warranty-/200773366499?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2ebf0672e3 These look interesting and offer life time warranty


Something in the middle between the Milner and Toyota options would be perfect.

 

[Chris]

Grant, remember I am runnng 37's I would use an HDK on the road but not off. IF I had 33's on I might well have a different view.

Longfields wear out quickly? Where did you hear that? ALL reports? They are chrome- moly and over £500 a pair!!!!!

Chris

 

[grantw]

@Lorin what circumstances did your's break under and were they the HDK ones? Was the locker enaged, were your wheels straight or turned when it failed?

Chris, good point re tyre size. currently only running stock size but will be upgrading to 33's as soon as i pick them up from Andy.

Re Longfields wearing out quickly only info I have is from quite a few comments on ih8mud. http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/384093-longfield-super-axles-why-off-road-use-only.html No idea how quickly quickly means though.

 

[grantw]

Just came across this below and was an interesting read. Is this hogwash?

Everything below from: http://www.colorado4x4.org/vbb/showthread.php?133056-80-Series-cruiser-Birfield-replacement

If you are getting clicking, I'd suspect the wheel bearings. That would be fixed as part of your axle refresh. If the rotors are warped at all or worn down, this would be the time to replace them. The wheel bearings on Toyota solid front axles are located inside the brake rotors(center hub section). If you want to invest smart money, replace the pads and rotors while you have it all apart(again use Toyota parts). The Birfs and inner axles really can't "wear" (see lower comment though)unless you had broken a birfield and the shards are being churned around in the end of the axle housing bell. As far as your axle spider gears being worn out, I think that is the wrong advice too. The sludge you see dripping out of the back side of the bells on the axle is likely not diff fluid but rather liquified grease from the birfields. This is common on higher mileage Toyota solid front axles and is just the grease breaking down with age. You will replace the felt and rubber wipers and repack the birfields as part of your axle refresh and that will solve that issue. I'd replace the inner axle seals too while I had it all apart since they are likely worn out. This would give you a good oppty to inspect the gears, reseal the 3rd member and replace the diff fluid.

Being the FJ80 is AWD and the front axle is always turning, there could be a slight chance that if the previous owner did NO maintenance on the front axle that the balls inside the birf have worn a groove into the inside of the bells. You would want to inspect for this wear when you had it all apart. If they looked good, a fresh Birf repack would be all you needed to do. None of them I refreshed needed replacing and all of them had 150K plus miles on them. But, it is sometime to inspect for when it's all apart.

Don't waste big buck on replacing items that don't need to be replaced. The FJ80 front axle is built really tough. It just needs a freshening every now and then. I believe that is all yours needs too.

One last thing, the trunion bearings get a lot of wear on the heavy FJ80 with age so it would make sense to replace them while you have it torn down.

 

[Chris]

I think if you read that Grant (the Longfied things) there is as much myth, mystery and belief as there is fact. And many cases for saying that the Longfields are good. On a daily drive, I'd use TDK but buy a couple of spares whilst I was at it. You'd have miles and miles of driving there.

Chris