Front end noise!

[anton]

Hey guys,

Been having a problem with the front end of my 80, any help would be great! She's a '94 FZJ80, manual with 240kms on the clock.

TLDR:
- Front end noise, happens above 40kph but only following 2 or more days of off-roading.
- It's really loud, vibrates the whole car and I often have to stop the car before the noise stops. After I've stopped I can set off again and it won't make the noise unless I go above 40kph.
- Pitch and volume of the noise seem to be related to vehicle speed (not RPM), suggesting the problem is past the gearbox.
- If I let the car rest for an hour or so it seems to be mostly fine and I can drive normally again.
- I have replaced wheel bearings and swivel hub seals, re-greased CVs, replaced diff oil.
- No metal shavings in the diff oil, and the diff gears look to be intact


My 80 has been making a nasty sound from the front end recently. It only happens after 2-3 days of off-roading, and is worst when I get back on the highway. I drive it around town all the time with no issues, but every time I do a trip more than 2 days this noise crops up again. It comes on above 40kph and I usually have to stop the car to make the noise stop, and then I can take off again and it's fine as long as I stay below 40kph. If I stop and let the car rest for an hour or two it tends to solve it and will only make the noise a few times for the rest of the day. It's a really loud grinding sound, the whole car vibrates. Taking the car out of gear or accelerating doesn't make it stop, and the pitch and volume of the noise seems to be related to how fast the car is going (not RPM).

 

[anton]

Here's a vid of the noise

 

[frank rabbets]

I can't access your "noise" video but by your description I would think it's a spider joint/s on the prop shaft/s. Not really possible to check reliably on the car. They can be unpredictable and wedge and free alternatively. I would remove the grease nipples from the props first so you can easily compress them to get them off. This saves damaging the prop bolt thread ends.

 

[anton]

I can't access your "noise" video but by your description I would think it's a spider joint/s on the prop shaft/s. Not really possible to check reliably on the car. They can be unpredictable and wedge and free alternatively. I would remove the grease nipples from the props first so you can easily compress them to get them off. This saves damaging the prop bolt thread ends.

Ok cheers for that mate. Not sure why the video isn't working for you, maybe try the direct link:

I have noticed the front prop shaft has some play in it (maybe 20-30 degrees each way as a rough guess), but I've heard this is fairly normal.

I did pull the front prop shaft off a while ago and drove around as a rear wheel drive for about 2 weeks to see if it made a difference. It never made the noise, however it often goes a couple of months without making the noise so I'm not sure if that was coincidence or not.

As an update I drove the car this afternoon and I now have a rattle coming from the front driver side. Not sure if this could be related or not.

 

[Ben Stratford]

+1 for propshaft spider joints

 

[Craige]

Spindle bushes worn would be my guess.

 

[frank rabbets]

Well I don't think that's a prop shaft noise. Am I right in saying it sounds like a tyre tread rubbing on bodywork. Not saying it is but would like you to confirm it's sounds like that.

Sounds like a dry plain bush bearing resonating somewhere. Very strange.

 

[nielsc]

Remove the front/rear propshaft and drive without it and see if it still does it. Bad U-joint can make all sorts of weird noises.

 

[Chris]

Well I'm usually pretty good with noises but that one has me foxed. Not just the noise but the pattern of occurrence. Sounds like a wasp's nest in the glove box.

 

[Waldamar]

Sounds like a hidden monkey hitting something with a big hammer................... find monkey - confiscate hammer!
Seriously I agree re. spider joints/UJ's [props] replace them - you don't want one letting go - I had that happen on an old truck - very messy plus knackered prop........................

 

[frank rabbets]

Clutching at straws really but could it be an engine air intake noise ?

 

[clivehorridge]

Spindle bushes worn would be my guess.

10:1 on the spindle bush, with 5:4 on a UJ...

 

[anton]

Hmm alrighty sounds like I have a few things to look at.

I'll pull the prop shaft and see what happens. Problem is the noise is so infrequent and random that it might just not happen with the propshaft off as a coincidence, but I guess if it happens with the propshaft off then at least we can rule that out.

I might get the spindle bushes done as a precaution as a few people on other forums have suggested that too.

 

[anton]

Well I don't think that's a prop shaft noise. Am I right in saying it sounds like a tyre tread rubbing on bodywork. Not saying it is but would like you to confirm it's sounds like that.

Sounds like a dry plain bush bearing resonating somewhere. Very strange.

Yeah I guess you could describe it like tyre on bodywork, but it's a little harsher, sounds more like metal on metal than rubber on plastic

 

[frank rabbets]

Just turned the volume up. Sounds like a very large hornet in the heater box or bull elephant under the hood. Hope you sort. If you have a plain bearing in the axle it might be that running dry.

Good luck. A result would be very interesting.

 

[StarCruiser]

That would have to be a really bad UJ to make that noise, that sounds like a shortish shaft, slack in a plain bearing walking round the edges. It sounds too fast for a wheel related noise at that speed so my guess is further up the driveline. Could easily be a dry ball or roller bearing that’s got some slack in it. Also if prop related it could be ringing and that isn’t.

Do you feel an increase in load when it does it, a braking effect?

My money would be on a diff input shaft bearing that’s gone slack.

The plain bearing in the hub is the prime suspect being a plain bearing but to me it seems faster than that would be with a lower mass (higher pitch) to move.

 

[frank rabbets]

I had exactly that noise, but quieter on a Range Rover. When I put my foot on the clutch there would often be the noise but it would only do it at certain revs with clutch disengaged. I had used a dry steel plain bearing in the end of the crankshaft instead of the correct porous oiled bronze one.

 

[anton]

That would have to be a really bad UJ to make that noise, that sounds like a shortish shaft, slack in a plain bearing walking round the edges. It sounds too fast for a wheel related noise at that speed so my guess is further up the driveline. Could easily be a dry ball or roller bearing that’s got some slack in it. Also if prop related it could be ringing and that isn’t.

Do you feel an increase in load when it does it, a braking effect?

My money would be on a diff input shaft bearing that’s gone slack.

The plain bearing in the hub is the prime suspect being a plain bearing but to me it seems faster than that would be with a lower mass (higher pitch) to move.

yeah there's a slight braking effect but its not super noticeable.

Right I'll have a look into that too. there is some play in the front prop shaft, would that be related?

 

[StarCruiser]

Where exactly is the play in the propshaft?

Play in anything that shouldn’t have it isn’t good and needs looking at and resolving. It could well be related but unless the splined slide is badly worn I would say it’s unlikely to be the originator of the noise. Check for play anywhere in the driveline however small, especially the input shaft to the front diff.

The braking effect will be slight as it has 2.8 tonnes of moving truck and 200 horses fighting it but if you had a drill in your hand driving it you would notice it a lot.

 

[clivehorridge]

I’ve listened again too, and the odds on a prop UJ are reducing fast, I’m still betting on reverberations through a dry spindle bearing, needle or plain...