FTE INJECTORS

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Craig, do you know what the difference is beteen the FT and FTE injectors? I have the opputunity of an incomplete FTE motor for about =A3400 / =A3450. It is - block, crank, rods, pistons, sump, some timing parts, head, valves, injectors and probably inlet manifold. No turbo and probably no injector pump.
It has taken a while to arrange a weekend when both I and the seller are both free plus I wanted to know if he had the injectors. So I am off to Devon next weekend with my trailer and some cash!
I had planned on getting one set of injectors overhauled then fitting them to my 80 1-HDFT. That way the vehicle is not off the road.
Mileages on the vehicles are - FTE 82 K - FT 103 K
Thanks, Gareth Jones.
 
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Hi Gareth,
No Sorry I don't Maarten at AAI does.
The vehicle shoud not need to be off the road anyway. Here in NZ I can
ring the fuel shop and arrange a service date and they will get a set of
nozzles in for me (I very rarely get injectors serviced without
replacing nozzles as after 100,000km I think I have had value for mony
from them), I then pull them out the previous evening and drop them out
first thing in the morning and pick them up or a courier drops them off
that afternoon so the truck is only off road for one day. On the FT it
is a good idea to get a fresh set of return line washers and the grommet
for where the injector pipes go through the side of the head on the way
to the injectors (here they have to come from Toyota the fuel shops
don't carry them).
There are a lot of common parts between them though.
Cheers,
Craig.
PS: I should post a pic to the list of what happens when a direct
injection injector fails it is not pretty and requires a major engine
rebuild versus a indirect which usually only needs a new cylinder head.
I will try and find a a piston I have after a injector went bad and
photograph it.
Gareth Jones wrote:
 
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Hey Craig
Is there any reason for an injector to fail or does it just happen.
Are there any signs to look out for to prevent this from happening in the
first place.
Is it only the nossels that need to be serviced every 100,000 kms.
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
 
G

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Guest
Hi John,
They generally don't fail for no reason but the nozzles eventually wear
out. Say that the engine averaged 100km/h at 2300rpm over 100,000km then
in that time each injector nozzle will have opened and shut about 70
million times so it is not surprising they wear a bit.
The most common sign is off road on a closed throttle the pistons cool
down at light load (the combustion chamber is in the top of the piston)
and the engine will start to blow white smoke from poor combustion with
the poor quality spray pattern's form the worn nozzles. The engine will
have more combustion noise with tired nozzles especially if they start
to dribble into the cylinder as the engine will knock on the leaking
fuel. When they get real bad it will sound like a little man is in the
cylinder trying to smash the engine apart from the inside with a
sledgehammer. This is caused by the injector nozzle not sealing and
diesel getting into the cylinders prematurely and as soon as the piston
comes up on the compression stroke far enough to heat the fuel to
ignition temp it will then ignite and try to blow the piston backwards
while the crank is pushing it upwards apart from the horrible combustion
loads on the crank the thermal load on the piston melts the crown and it
goes out the exhaust port as molten aluminium. Usually the turbo
survives once you pick the bits of melted piston off the blades and dig
it out of the exhaust manifold and exhaust ports.
On indirect injection engines such as the 1HZ the pistons usually
survive and the precomb chamber over heats and the head cracks. I have
seen plenty of both in various engines and usually but not alway's the
injectors are long overdue for a service when the engine fails.
One poor guy I met put three brand new cylinder heads on a 3B toyota
before I came across him and asked him about injectors and he had not
touched them and they were completely and utterly trashed, before he put
the 4th head on he had new nozzles fitted and the engine ran fine after
that. An in excess of $10,000 lesson for the sake of $400 of injectors.
I find new nozzles assembly's and getting setup properly every 100,000km
is cheap insurance. As reagrds the rest of the fuel system a pump
service is in order at some stage but I can't really put a mileage on it
and running a Walbro pusher pump greatly extends this service interval.
Cheers,
Craig.
John Byrne wrote:
 
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G

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Thanks, Craig.
Interesting reading. I will get in touch with AAI.
Regards Gareth.
 
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On May 30, 2006, at 9:35 PM, Craig Vincent wrote:
> PS: I should post a pic to the list of what happens when a direct
> injection injector fails it is not pretty and requires a major
> engine rebuild versus a indirect which usually only needs a new
> cylinder head
Hi Craig
are our injectors indirect(silly question :-()?I mean for 24 valves
engines_96m0d HDJ80
Cheers
Lubo
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Lubo,
the 12 and 24 valve 1HD-T & 1HD-FT are direct injection the 12v non
turbo 1HZ is indirect.
Cheers,
Craig.
Lubomir Kolev wrote:
>
> On May 30, 2006, at 9:35 PM, Craig Vincent wrote:
>
>> PS: I should post a pic to the list of what happens when a direct
>> injection injector fails it is not pretty and requires a major engine
>> rebuild versus a indirect which usually only needs a new cylinder head
>>
>
> Hi Craig
> are our injectors indirect(silly question :-()?I mean for 24 valves
> engines_96m0d HDJ80
>
> Cheers
> Lubo
 
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Hi Craig
as long as I remember someone mentioned that to change the injectors
cost around 400$.I talk with Toyota today and here for 'Avensis' 4D4
the price is 3000$ +VAT +work
Is that possible?And it is for 4 injectors.....
:-(((((((((
Cheers
Lubo
On May 31, 2006, at 11:57 PM, Craig Vincent wrote:
> Hi Lubo,
> the 12 and 24 valve 1HD-T & 1HD-FT are direct injection the 12v non
> turbo 1HZ is indirect.
>
> Cheers,
> Craig.
>
> Lubomir Kolev wrote:
>>
>> On May 30, 2006, at 9:35 PM, Craig Vincent wrote:
>>
>>> PS: I should post a pic to the list of what happens when a direct
>>> injection injector fails it is not pretty and requires a major
>>> engine rebuild versus a indirect which usually only needs a new
>>> cylinder head
>>
>> Hi Craig
>> are our injectors indirect(silly question :-()?I mean for 24
>> valves engines_96m0d HDJ80
>>
>> Cheers
>> Lubo
 
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Lubo

Craig's the expert ... but isn't the D-4D engine a high pressure pump common rail one, with electrically operated injectors? I seem to recall that =A3500 per injector is about right for those.

Fortunately our motors are a bit lower tech!

Christopher Bell
Hi Craig
as long as I remember someone mentioned that to change the injectors cost around 400$.I talk with Toyota today and here for 'Avensis' 4D4 the price is 3000$ +VAT +work
Is that possible?And it is for 4 injectors.....
:-(((((((((
Cheers
Lubo
____________________________________________________________
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systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses
 
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Chris
looks like our injectors are not direct ones. Do you know some other
name for 'injector' ?
rgrds
Lubo
On Jun 1, 2006, at 7:36 PM, Christopher Bell wrote:
> Lubo
>
> Craig's the expert ... but isn't the D-4D engine a high pressure
> pump common rail one, with electrically operated injectors? I seem > to recall that =A3500 per injector is about right for those.
>
> Fortunately our motors are a bit lower tech!
>
> Christopher Bell
>
> Hi Craig
> as long as I remember someone mentioned that to change the
> injectors cost around 400$.I talk with Toyota today and here for
> 'Avensis' 4D4 the price is 3000$ +VAT +work
> Is that possible?And it is for 4 injectors.....
> :-(((((((((
> Cheers
> Lubo
> ____________________________________________________________
> Electronic mail messages entering and leaving Arup business
> systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Chris and Lubo,
Chris is right the Avensis is a completely diffrent animal there are two
versions of injector used in it the lower power avensis is common rail
but I am not sure exactly how the injectors are actuated other than it
is some how electrically, the more powerful Avensis engine has piezo
cystal injectors where a capacitive type discharge causes the needle in
the nozzle to be lifted upto 5 times on one power stroke. I don't know
life expectancy but the cost you quoted could be right but there is so
little other maintenance to do to that model it maybe you have to put up
with a exspensive injector service once in a while I think they only
require 6-7 hours labour to reach the end of the warranty period and
that is mainly oil and filter changes because the thing runs so
incredibly clean.
The $400NZ I reffered to was for a indirect 3B indirect injection Toyota
four cylinder. The turbo landcruiser injectors are dual spring direct
injection injectors so are more complicated than the old plodder 3B and
require more setup time and cost more btween trade and reatil and
shopping round here you would pay $750-1350 plus fitting for the six to
be rebuilt.
Cheers,
Craig
Christopher Bell wrote:
> Lubo
>
> Craig's the expert ... but isn't the D-4D engine a high pressure pump
> common rail one, with electrically operated injectors? I seem to
> recall that ?500 per injector is about right for those.
>
> Fortunately our motors are a bit lower tech!
>
> Christopher Bell
>
> Hi Craig
> as long as I remember someone mentioned that to change the
> injectors cost around 400$.I talk with Toyota today and here for
> 'Avensis' 4D4 the price is 3000$ +VAT +work
> Is that possible?And it is for 4 injectors.....
> :-(((((((((
> Cheers
> Lubo
>
>____________________________________________________________
>Electronic mail messages entering and leaving Arup business
>systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses
>
>
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Lubo,
They are definitely direct injection but Toyota CAN'T sell you a set of
nozzles they don't have them they can sell you a complete injector which
I would guess could be 300 pounds each for a 1HD-FT but you don't do it
this way. You go to a fuel shop (injection equipment type service
company) and they will replace the nozzles assembly in your injectors
and reset with shims the first and second stage opening pressures.
As far as I know there are two common types of indirect injection nozzles.
Common type that open at 1500-2700psi
dual hole type that open at similar pressures but a pilot charge goes
straight into the cylinder and the main charge goes into the pre-comb
chamber as used in some isuzus and landrovers. They tend to be
exspensive and not that reliable.
Direct injection
std type 2500-3500psi opening pressure
Dual spring 2500-3500psi opening pressure
common rail 20,000-27,000 psi
Piezo common rail 25,000-35,000 psi
They are ranked in the direction of improving technology and price.
There are other options such as some audis were using high pressure unit
injector on some of there engines, similar pressure to common rail, but
different operating principle. I think they are now mainly using pizeo
common rail
Lubomir Kolev wrote:
> Chris
>
> looks like our injectors are not direct ones. Do you know some other
> name for 'injector' ?
> rgrds
> Lubo
> On Jun 1, 2006, at 7:36 PM, Christopher Bell wrote:
>
>> Lubo
>>
>> Craig's the expert ... but isn't the D-4D engine a high pressure pump
>> common rail one, with electrically operated injectors? I seem to
>> recall that ?500 per injector is about right for those.
>>
>> Fortunately our motors are a bit lower tech!
>>
>> Christopher Bell
>>
>> Hi Craig
>> as long as I remember someone mentioned that to change the
>> injectors cost around 400$.I talk with Toyota today and here for
>> 'Avensis' 4D4 the price is 3000$ +VAT +work
>> Is that possible?And it is for 4 injectors.....
>> :-(((((((((
>> Cheers
>> Lubo
>>
>>____________________________________________________________
>>Electronic mail messages entering and leaving Arup business
>>systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses
>>
>>
>
 
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