Gasless MIG Welding

[Andrew Brierley]

Considering buying a MIG kit, but it will be used fairly infrequently (prob half a dozen times a year). A gasless kit with flux coated wire seems a logical choice, but does anyone have any experience of using these? How do they compare with the gas kits?

 

[yogi]

Depends what you want to do with it, I haven't much experience of welding with gas TBH, but gasless MIG is ok for 'rougher finish' jobs like gates, farm machinery, exhausts and unseen things like frames etc. But you wouldn't want to use it for say body repairs IMHO, because you get a lot of spatter and rough irregular looking welds. Now you can grind off a lot of the mess with it.

It really comes down to the finish you want, and a lot of that is still down to your abilities as a welder and patience at the end of the day. Personally I sometimes find it hard to get things hot enough too, but that could be down to the calibre of the electrical supply at home here which I wouldn't like a "elf n saferty" inspector to take a look at!!

When it comes down to it, if you only going to use it a few times a year its hard to justify the expense of anything more that the basics. There are lots of things I'd love to have about once or twice a year like a bearing press or a really nasty con saw but they would gather dust 363 days of the year so what's the point!!
Sometimes it is just cheaper and easier to pay someone to do it for you!

 

[Chris]

Personally I wouldn't waste your money.

Chris

 

[Captainoversteer]

Personally I wouldn't waste your money.

Chris

Im with Chris,gasless mig's really are useless. May as well spend your money on a pallet full of superglue. Obviously,like everthing else,you gets what you pay for but you should be looking at at least a 130amp mig.

 

[Gary820]

Agree with the above, not great and messy. Tried it once and wouldn't wanna use it again.
I get my gas (argon/co2) from local auto jumble and a decent size bottle costs me £50, no rental to pay and when runs out go back and see the same bloke for another. If have one local to you it's worth looking into it, get all my welding supplies from there.
Seen suppliers on e bay too, could be someone local to you?

 

[Chris]

It's like anything really, cutting corners doesn't work. "I won't need to weld very often therefore I want a cheap welder" - I know that's not what you said, but that is what it amounts to. "I won't need to winch very often therefore I only want a cheap e-bay winch" It's the same thing.

What you might consider is an inverter MMA set. Forget MIG go with a stick, but a modern stick. With an inverter - less than £200 with scratch start you'll be winning. You can use pretty thin rods up to nearly 4mm IIRC.

If you want to make brackets, mend things - well basically glue any steel together that isn't body panels then go with a MMA.

Chris

 

[hairyguy4]

It's like anything really, cutting corners doesn't work. "I won't need to weld very often therefore I want a cheap welder" - I know that's not what you said, but that is what it amounts to. "I won't need to winch very often therefore I only want a cheap e-bay winch" It's the same thing.

What you might consider is an inverter MMA set. Forget MIG go with a stick, but a modern stick. With an inverter - less than £200 with scratch start you'll be winning. You can use pretty thin rods up to nearly 4mm IIRC.

If you want to make brackets, mend things - well basically glue any steel together that isn't body panels then go with a MMA.

Chris

x2, I've got a oerlikon 160a arc welder for home welding (got a 300a mig oerlikon at work) and it's bloody brill used to have a 150a Clarke mig but fecked that off as soon I I got the arc

 

[Rob Cowell]

I have an old Clarke 150 amp gasless, and for me it's great. Will happily repair chassis bits and lumps of tractors and trailers, which is all I've ever really used it for. I don't have the skill to weld body panels with it, and it doesn't really feed wire smoothly enough to IMO. Be interested to know how people get on with gas outdoors. Reason I bought gasless was worrying over breezes - I dont have a garage.

 

[Chris]

It's fine Rob. If it were blowing a gale, I wouldn't be outside to be fair. On a nice day, gas is not a problem at all.

Chris

 

[Andrew Brierley]

OK, so gas it is.... Nearly fell over at the BOC prices - £33 for a refill, but £72/year rental! I also found hobbyweld (www.hobbyweld.co.uk). They supply two different MIG gas mixes (Hobbyweld 5 & Hobbyweld 15) for £35 refill, and a one-off cylinder purchase of £50. I presume these are their equivalents of Argoshield Light and Argoshield Universal? Does anyone have experience of using these compared with the BOC gases?

 

[stumog]

Andrew thats some good homeework there i think i will be going for one of those bottles i have boc up until sept. sounds good to me. i would go for the 15%co2 as that is for thicker stuff

 

[Doodle]

Andrew,

If you're not going to be doing lots and lots of welding, perhaps consider the 2 litre portable cylinders of argoshield light. It's about £18 a year rental and gives you about an hour's weld time - refill is about £15 from memory.

How big are the Hobbyshield 5 cylinders you mentioned?

 

[Andrew Brierley]

The 'Light' is a perfect size for me, but only recommended for up to 4mm sheet. As I will also want to fabricate 10mm, the 'Universal' was recommended by the welding trainer as a good all-round compromise. The Hobbyweld bottles are 1.34 m3, compared with the BOC 'X' size which are 2.42 m3, so you only get 55% of the gas volume (for around the same price). The economics all comes down to the amount of gas you are likely to use each year, and BOC charge you for 2 cylinders worth (rental equivalent) - whether you use it or not. So, the comparison is that 1 cylinder per year from BOC (£33 + £72) is almost the same price as 3 cylinders from Hobbyweld (£35 x 3) (excluding the £50 up front), and you would get roughly 50% more gas from Hobbyweld. If you don't use a fully cylinder from BOC each year, then Hobbyweld is by far the cheapest option. I haven't worked out what the cut-over point is for heavier users, but I'm sure that someone will... Of course, if you also want some pure Argon for ali welding the costs are hugely in favour of Hobbyweld.... And BTW, I wish that I could insert paragraphs when posting, it makes it much easier to read...! QUICK UPDATE... Hobbyweld is £55 up front, but its not a purchase, its a refundable deposit

 

[Doodle]

If the Hobbyweld is a refundable deposit, that makes things very interesting indeed...I will have to look at that myself. I've used the Argoshield Light up to about 7-8mm without any problem.

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

I don't know how the prices compare but there is also http://www.thewelderswarehouse.com/Welding/Refillable-Gas-Cylinders-1.html who I have been using for Argon for TIG welding. I have a Hobby Weld cylinder I got first but the local stockist has never got exchange ones in stock, must remember to take it back and reclaim my deposit

 

[oldman]

Hi, i've been looking at gas too, and was surprised to find that motor factors
are starting to supply it. Some will only let you have it if you have an account with them.
My nearest Hobbyweld supplier is about 40 miles from me and the factors about 10.
The factors are on a refundable deposit of £50 and £38 for a refill and a saving of 60 mile.

 

[Chris]

I'm on a BOC low user scheme tariff and I pay very little. Annual charge and just the gas when I exchange. No environmental charge, cylinder charge etc. IUt was set up originally by the VW owner's club. Volksgas I believe it was called. IIRC I had heard they'd closed it. But you can get small Argoshield light in a low user scheme. They are only smallish bottles but quite a bit of gas. I remember Jon do the maths and litre for litre it is not as cheap as buying a tanker full. But not everyone wants, needs or has room for a tanker.

 

[Towpack]

I just use CO2 for all mild steel welding with my MIG and it does a great job. Practically replated the whole floor of an old Escort I had years ago with it. A local motor factor does (or used to do) refills an an exchange basis.