Glow Plug Broke on removal - Help anyone...

[Beau]

Last weekend I went about swapping over all my glow plugs as the engine was struggling to turn over in the cold temperatures. It would start but would idle all over the place for a few seconds.

So I went about removing the glow plugs, an easy job I thought....

3 of the glow plugs were rather easy to remove and came out nicely. On inspection one glow plug tip was broken in half and another one was dented... anyone want to explain how this is possible?

Anyhow that wasn't my main issue, the 4th glow plug, ironically the easiest one to physically remove was very tight... but due to the location it was easy for me to get a socket and ratchet to remove it. So I did so, and SNAP... the glow plug itself broke and I am now left with the majority of the glow plug still in the engine....

I'm wondering what's the easiest way of removing the rest of it from the engine, I have read there are special tools that you can tap into the glow plug itself and then unscrew it. The last thing I want is for the actual glow plug to fall into the engine, as this would require a head off job, which is not what I'm prepared to do in this weather.

Alternatively, I was just thinking of running her on 3 glow plugs.

So what are you guys thoughts, any help appreciated

 

[silvercruiser]

Did you warm the engine up before taking them out? if not it might be worth running it up to temp with the three new ones in and depending on the amount of old glow plug you have showing, getting it out whilst warm as it should come out alot easier..Maybe a photo might let us know how much is left to get out.


Joe

 

[BobMurphy]

The last thing I want is for the actual glow plug to fall into the engine, as this would require a head off job, which is not what I'm prepared to do in this weather.

It won't go down into the bore as it protrudes into the steel 'Pre-Combustion' chamber - but so does the injector so you don't want bits in there.

As suggested - warm the engine up before trying anything else.

Is there a hole down the centre of whats left in the head?? If so you might be lucky with one of those reverse-thread "Easy-Outs". Personally I find them pretty useless as they expand the thing you're trying to extract and just make it tighter, then they snap.

Let's see what were dealing with.

Bob.

 

[Crushers]

just the carbon end or did the metal itself bust?
if it is just the carbon end then it can fall inside with no issues. BTDT many times over the decades. the carbon is brittle and will disinegrate to dust and out the exhaust valve. no need to remove the head.
but
if it has not fallen into the engine then just crank the engine over, but make sure you and your buds stand back. it will come out from the compression of the engine cranking over.

if you snapped the metal in half (how? i just can't picture it) then i can't help. sorry.

 

[Beau]

Thanks for your reply guys. For the past couple days I have been soaking it with Brakes fluid to try and corrode out as much dirt and carbon from the remaining thread as possible. I will hopefully get a picture of it up later, but it's too dark at the moment.

The glow plug has broken from about 2 threads in, so about 3/4 of the glow plug still remains in the engine, and is only couple mm down the hole and can still be seen.

I have got the reverse thread removal tool and shall use it this weekend giving the brakes fluid good time to soak in. I did have the engine warm upon removal and 3 came out with ease, it was just this one. I should have soaked them before removal but it never crossed my mind.

I shall post a pic up later.

 

[wobbly]

I cant offer any advice, but am also having an equally frustrating 1 pace forward/2 paces back couple of days, albeit my problems are swimming pool related!

Hope you get it sorted on the first try this weekend.

Cheers

Pete.

 

[Beau]

Thanks, It's the worst time of the year really for problems like this to be happening. In the summer, it would have only taken a day or two to comfortable remove the head and take it out. I'm just being careful not to do any damage to the actual head. If all else fails, she'll have to run on 3 out of the 4 glow plugs.... This should work right?

Also is there anything I can do to test how good the glow plugs are other than visually looking at them...

 

[majic79]

Stick a multimeter on them and see if there's any resistance. Truth be told, I'd never pull glow plugs unless it was obviously not starting properly on one or more cylinders. It may sound a bit rough initially, but as long as the plug stays intact in the hole, there's no reason it shouldn't run with only three plugs (they're only there to aid starting and not used once the engine is up to temp)

 

[BobMurphy]

Is there anything I can do to test how good the glow plugs are other than visually looking at them...

Test the resistence with a multimeter.

The book says 0.6 to 0.9 Ohms, but less than 1 Ohm is good.

Any that are 1 Ohm or more should be replaced.


Bob.

 

[IRLGW]

I would suggest leaving the broken one were it is and replacing the other three to see how that goes first. The plugs heat the air so reckon you may not notice if only 1 is down. You could end up with much bigger PIA trying to remove the 4th one if it isn't really necessary. Sometimes with a seized glow you can try tightening it a few degrees to stretch the threads before removing it if it proves to be stuck. Isn't it great to get all this advice in hindsight when its not our problem!

 

[Graham]

I would suggest leaving the broken one were it is and replacing the other three to see how that goes first.

.
.
DO THIS. ^^^^^^^^^^^^
DON'T ATTEMPT TO BUTCHER OUT THE 4th GLOW PLUG.

Gra.

 

[Beau]

A bit of an update....

I tried removing the broken glow plug with a removal tool and I had no luck, it was just too tight!

So I connected everything up, and surprisingly she fired up better than ever, a little rough for a couple seconds but actually better than before. I did a little research and the glow plugs only stay on for around 10 seconds after the engine has started to assist with warming up the cylinder. I don't think here in the UK we get such freezing temperatures so wont be worrying too much. I'll probably take the head out next summer and look into removing it.

Thank you, for all of your replies! Just think I would recommend anyone planning on changing them to heavily soak the thread a lot before removing them.

 

[AndyCook]

glad it is working ok

i have thought of changing the glow plugs on my collie, since i usually have to leave them heating 5-10 secs before turning the key, otherwise i takes 2-5cranks before it fires. but i have been too nervous of having a glowplug shear....

i have always found those removal tools snap...

 

[Beau]

glad it is working ok

i have thought of changing the glow plugs on my collie, since i usually have to leave them heating 5-10 secs before turning the key, otherwise i takes 2-5cranks before it fires. but i have been too nervous of having a glowplug shear....

i have always found those removal tools snap...

I think once you are careful with removing them, you should be fine. Soaking them with brakes fluid or any sort of penetration fluid helps, as well as having the engine warm.

 

[wobbly]

If it does get very cold, you could cheat by pouring a kettle of boiling water over the manifold before cranking the engine.

Pete.

 

[Toycruiser90]

A bit of an update....

I tried removing the broken glow plug with a removal tool and I had no luck, it was just too tight!

So I connected everything up, and surprisingly she fired up better than ever, a little rough for a couple seconds but actually better than before. I did a little research and the glow plugs only stay on for around 10 seconds after the engine has started to assist with warming up the cylinder. I don't think here in the UK we get such freezing temperatures so wont be worrying too much. I'll probably take the head out next summer and look into removing it.

Thank you, for all of your replies! Just think I would recommend anyone planning on changing them to heavily soak the thread a lot before removing them.

.........Just some info - I had severe starting problems 2 years ago and while fault finding I found that the Glow plugs stayed on for nearly 3 minutes after starting from cold and allowing engine to idle, they must be set to stay on till engine reaches a certain temperature, obviously if you start driving straight away then the engine would warm up quicker and the plugs would be turned off sooner. also if you turn ON the ignition only and dont start the engine then the Glow Plugs will turn off after 10 seconds, you will hear the relay click off.

"Quote" -the engine was struggling to turn over in the cold temperatures. It would start but would idle all over the place for a few seconds.

When my engine was struggling to turn over in winter time it turned out to be the starter, after 2 winters of starting problems it would be OK for the rest of the year until the cold weather came again, eventually the starter got very noisy and when I took it off to check it, pretty much all the bearings and gears were in bits, I couldn't believe it was actually able to turn like that but it was, anyway after the 2 years of starting problems, the cost of 3 new batteries, glow plugs etc etc fitting a new (Recon) Starter instantly made the engine turn over really fast for starting which is what you want with starting a big diesel, before this the engine would struggle and turn over slowly like a flat battery but would start eventually, but the excess fuel that pumped in during this time would take a few seconds to clear out, and then the engine would settle.

- A bit late but hope this helps ........ Rob

 

[Beau]

.........Just some info - I had severe starting problems 2 years ago and while fault finding I found that the Glow plugs stayed on for nearly 3 minutes after starting from cold and allowing engine to idle, they must be set to stay on till engine reaches a certain temperature, obviously if you start driving straight away then the engine would warm up quicker and the plugs would be turned off sooner. also if you turn ON the ignition only and dont start the engine then the Glow Plugs will turn off after 10 seconds, you will hear the relay click off.

"Quote" -the engine was struggling to turn over in the cold temperatures. It would start but would idle all over the place for a few seconds.

When my engine was struggling to turn over in winter time it turned out to be the starter, after 2 winters of starting problems it would be OK for the rest of the year until the cold weather came again, eventually the starter got very noisy and when I took it off to check it, pretty much all the bearings and gears were in bits, I couldn't believe it was actually able to turn like that but it was, anyway after the 2 years of starting problems, the cost of 3 new batteries, glow plugs etc etc fitting a new (Recon) Starter instantly made the engine turn over really fast for starting which is what you want with starting a big diesel, before this the engine would struggle and turn over slowly like a flat battery but would start eventually, but the excess fuel that pumped in during this time would take a few seconds to clear out, and then the engine would settle.

- A bit late but hope this helps ........ Rob[/QUOTE

Thanks for your input.

I think you may be right with the plugs staying on for 3 minutes, but when I did my research, the voltage supplied there dropped over the 3 minute span as the engine warmed up. Although your systems are close to mine, I am fairly certain mine is due to the glow plugs. If the engine was warm before hand, she would fire up on instantly so the starter motor is in good condition I think. I have been using her with 3 working plugs for the past couple weeks and she has been fine. A little rough on start-up and some black smoke but a few seconds and she's fine.

 

[Toycruiser90]

As long as your battery is good your engine should turn over fast on the starter, check it against another Cruiser if you can, when the engine is warm 1 or 2 cylinder's will be firing immediately the engine begins turning assisting the starter, making it much easier for the starter to turn over the engine, mine is a single battery set up so I convinced myself a "special" heavy duty battery would solve the slow starting, costing me £150 and made no difference, My new recon starter cost £120 from memory and fitted in 30 minutes, if I had done it first I could have saved myself alot of expense and annoyance, I ran on 2 plugs for over a year after finding 2 were gone, when I eventually changed them I didn't notice much difference for starting,
Just passing on my experience. .... Rob.

 

[Ghulam]

just the carbon end or did the metal itself bust?
if it is just the carbon end then it can fall inside with no issues. BTDT many times over the decades. the carbon is brittle and will disinegrate to dust and out the exhaust valve. no need to remove the head.
but
if it has not fallen into the engine then just crank the engine over, but make sure you and your buds stand back. it will come out from the compression of the engine cranking over.

if you snapped the metal in half (how? i just can't picture it) then i can't help. sorry.

just the carbon end or did the metal itself bust?
if it is just the carbon end then it can fall inside with no issues. BTDT many times over the decades. the carbon is brittle and will disinegrate to dust and out the exhaust valve. no need to remove the head.
but
if it has not fallen into the engine then just crank the engine over, but make sure you and your buds stand back. it will come out from the compression of the engine cranking over.

if you snapped the metal in half (how? i just can't picture it) then i can't help. sorry.

Hello there,

Hope you can help us out with broken glow plugs!? (Only the tips)

Only the tips have been broken, two of them look like they been broken for a while as the broken tip looked real black and does not look fresh! And the other two I managed to break them my self when taking them off!

Could you confirm about the tips been made of carbon or something that come out of the exhaust system and not damage the engine?

Do all glow plugs have this material on its tip or do we have other ones that have tips made of harder materials that could damage the engine if not taken out first? PLEASE NOTE THAT MINE HAS THE INTERCOOLER TURBO)

And if I force the broken tips out of its holes by cracking the engine, would there be a steps doing this task? ie: pouring in a bit of penetrating oil in the holes first and do each holes one at a time when cranking the engine to force out the broken glow plugs tips?

Thank you in advance

Ghulam

 

[Ghulam]

Hello there,

Hope you can help us out with broken glow plugs!? (Only the tips)

Only the tips have been broken, two of them look like they been broken for a while as the broken tip looked real black and does not look fresh! And the other two I managed to break them my self when taking them off!

Could you confirm about the tips been made of carbon or something that come out of the exhaust system and not damage the engine?

Do all glow plugs have this material on its tip or do we have other ones that have tips made of harder materials that could damage the engine if not taken out first? PLEASE NOTE THAT MINE HAS THE INTERCOOLER TURBO)

And if I force the broken tips out of its holes by cracking the engine, would there be a steps doing this task? ie: pouring in a bit of penetrating oil in the holes first and do each holes one at a time when cranking the engine to force out the broken glow plugs tips?

Thank you in advance

Ghulam

And will i need to disconnect the fuel pump when doing the above?