Help! - Mangled Locking Wheel Nut. Any Tips?

[stuzbot]

I tell you, if I was a racehorse, my nickname would be "Fell at First Fence"!

I thought I'd go out this evening and just loosen and re-tighten my wheel nuts. So they wouldn't give me any gyp when [weather permitting] I do the LBJs tomorrow.

My heart sank as I saw the crappy poundland locking wheel nuts on there, as they both looked rusted solid.

Anyway, I managed to free off the worst looking of the two, cleaned it up and torqued it back to spec ie. 120 Nm not eleventy-billion Nm as most garage hands armed with an air ratchet thinks they need. But, needless to say, when I moved onto the one which didn't look half so bad, things all went pear shaped.

The fecker wouldn't budge and, even leaning my bodyweight aginst the socket to keep it pushed tight against the nut, it cammed out as I was trying to turn it. I got my impact driver and tried that, several times for a good minute at a time. But all that did was make a load of noise and elongate the holes in the nut even more. So now there's no chance of the socket staying put without camming out...

So, anyone got any fullproof tips for getting one of these buggers out?

Grrrrr!!!

 

[stuzbot]

Things I've thought of so far:

1: weld a nut [or similar] onto the top of it and try turning that out. Dubious this would hold though as it's probably torqued to eleventy-billion Nm

2: flat grind the front face of the locking nut down by a mm or two to get past the mangled part of the holes. then drill them deeper and try again. Dubious about this too. Since the thing is obviously made of cheese, I think the new holes would just rip through also

3: try and somehow cut it off. I can't see how I could do that without knackering the wheel stud, as it's such a confined space and the locking nut embeds right into the recess in the hub.

 

[Juddian]

295846155642 ebay number.

If that doesn't work punch in 'locking wheel nut removal tool'.

Around £12 to £14, they should do the job ok.

 

[stuzbot]

295846155642 ebay number.

If that doesn't work punch in 'locking wheel nut removal tool'.

That's another option I hadn't considered. Basically just a set of rounded nut/bolt extractors. I've actually got a decent set of Irwin ones already. But i just checked and they only go up to 19mm....

That might be big enough though. The wheel nuts are 21mm but the core of the locking nut will be less than that. Especially after removing the rotating cuff bit. I do wonder whether the extractors would be tough enough for the job though. That fecker is well seized on. Worth a punt, I suppose, before trying more drastic approaches.

Cheers for that. It's given me a new angle of approach to ponder on.

 

[Howmanygoes]

I got some from Cromwell that had a reverse thread cut inside that effectively cut into the bolt/nuts. I'll try to find a link or photo. Where are you based?

 

[Howmanygoes]

Like theses.

Clarke PRO406 Emergency Wheel Nut Removal Tool - Machine Mart - Machine Mart

www.machinemart.co.uk

 

[stuzbot]

Like theses.

Clarke PRO406 Emergency Wheel Nut Removal Tool - Machine Mart - Machine Mart

www.machinemart.co.uk

Ha ha!--I've just been looking at some of those on Amazon.

Hopefully the 19mm extractor in my Irwin set will be big enough to fit. Supposedly they're tough enough to be whacked on with a lump hammer until they bite in.

If that doesn't work, I'll order a set of those other kind you linked to. And, if and when I get the fecker off, I'll be replacing all my locking wheel nuts with 'proper' ones. The locking ones cause more trouble than they're worth.

 

[Towpack]

I had those locknuts on my LR Discovery and they were shite. I ended up doing as suggested above and welded a nut on the end which worked.

 

[stuzbot]

I had those locknuts on my LR Discovery and they were shite. I ended up doing as suggested above and welded a nut on the end which worked.

It's not only the fact that they're shite. It's the fact that you just know some eejit in Kwik Fit [or similar] will have done them up with a pneumatic driver to about 3 times the recommended torque. It's bad enough trying to wrestle a proper wheel nut off in those circumstances. Never mind one where your "grip" on the nut consists of 3 tiny metal pegs.

How odd. In eager anticipation of winning the forthcoming Battle of the Locking Wheel Nut, I've just been looking on RoughTrax for replacement "proper" ones and all the ones they sell take a 19mm socket, instead of a 21mm one. So I'd still have to carry a spare socket to take a wheel off!

Chrome - Standard Tapered Wheel Nut M12x1.5mm - [Leaving Land Cruiser Club]

Oh well. I suppose it would add a slight bit of theft... if not "deterrence" then "inconvenience".

 

[Towpack]

That's another option I hadn't considered. Basically just a set of rounded nut/bolt extractors. I've actually got a decent set of Irwin ones already. But i just checked and they only go up to 19mm....

View attachment 335934

That might be big enough though. The wheel nuts are 21mm but the core of the locking nut will be less than that. Especially after removing the rotating cuff bit. I do wonder whether the extractors would be tough enough for the job though. That fecker is well seized on. Worth a punt, I suppose, before trying more drastic approaches.

Cheers for that. It's given me a new angle of approach to ponder on.

The knackered locking nut has a revolving collar round the outside which spins so I doubt these would work even if they were big enough.

 

[stuzbot]

The knackered locking nut has a revolving collar round the outside which spins so I doubt these would work even if they were big enough.

Yes. I'm going to have to grind the collar off first, so the extractors can sink their teeth into the nut itself. The collar looked like pretty thin metal, so I don't think it'll put up much of a fight.

There I go, tempting fate again!

EDIT: It actually points that out in the instructions for one of those sets on Amazon....

I like the way those instructions tell you to give it a bit of welly with a hammer and then use a breaker bar. They must be confident in their toughness.

 

[Towpack]

When I removed mine with the nut welding method, I shielded the alloy wheel with a piece of thin wall tubing just big enough to fit in the nut well, then made a good job of the weld. I suspect the localised intense heat of the welding process helped a lot here.

 

[stuzbot]

VICTORY!

I managed to get that twat of a locking wheel nut off today, using a veritable arsenal of tools. But mainly the Irwin knackered bolt extractor kit I pictured earlier in the thread. The 19mm one was just the perfect size to hammer onto the core of the locking nut, after I'd ground off the rotating cuff.

A couple of stills from my forthcoming blockbuster "Man Versus Locking Wheel Nut -- The Director's Cut"...

Even then, I had to resort to a length of scaffold bar on the end of my 1/2" drive ratchet to get the fecker to budge and no-one was more surprised than me when it did, as it really felt like the ratchet was about to strip its gear wheel instead...

I must say, I'm mightily impressed with the quality of those Irwin extractors. i really had to welly on the end of the scaffold bar and, as I say, it really felt like my ratchet was about to bend, or shear off. But when I finally extracted the recalcitrant nut from the extractor.... Just look how it has chewed up that nut. And yet the extractor hasn't a scratch on it.

Once I'd got that piece of junk off the wheel, I removed and re-torqued all the wheel nuts on the front two wheels, so they'll not give me any nasty surprises when I eventually get round to doing these blummin' LBJs.

I was going to take the wheels off completely to get a bit more access for another round of penetrating oil on the current LBJs. But I found my trolley jack wouldn't go high enough to do more than touch the bottom of the chassis rail. Likewise my axle stands. So I just jacked it up until the suspension dangled a bit, using the on-board bottle jack and gave the LBJs another squirt, by reaching round the wheels.

So, next challenge is to track down something like a nice paving slab or two, so I can raise my jack up a bit and get the fecker off the ground. I don't remember having to put anything underneath the jack, when I did the LBJs on my Collie. So this truck must have a bit more ground clearance.

 

[Grimbo]

VICTORY!

I managed to get that twat of a locking wheel nut off today, using a veritable arsenal of tools. But mainly the Irwin knackered bolt extractor kit I pictured earlier in the thread. The 19mm one was just the perfect size to hammer onto the core of the locking nut, after I'd ground off the rotating cuff.

A couple of stills from my forthcoming blockbuster "Man Versus Locking Wheel Nut -- The Director's Cut"...

View attachment 335952

Even then, I had to resort to a length of scaffold bar on the end of my 1/2" drive ratchet to get the fecker to budge and no-one was more surprised than me when it did, as it really felt like the ratchet was about to strip its gear wheel instead...

View attachment 335953

I must say, I'm mightily impressed with the quality of those Irwin extractors. i really had to welly on the end of the scaffold bar and, as I say, it really felt like my ratchet was about to bend, or shear off. But when I finally extracted the recalcitrant nut from the extractor.... Just look how it has chewed up that nut. And yet the extractor hasn't a scratch on it.

View attachment 335954

Once I'd got that piece of junk off the wheel, I removed and re-torqued all the wheel nuts on the front two wheels, so they'll not give me any nasty surprises when I eventually get round to doing these blummin' LBJs.

I was going to take the wheels off completely to get a bit more access for another round of penetrating oil on the current LBJs. But I found my trolley jack wouldn't go high enough to do more than touch the bottom of the chassis rail. Likewise my axle stands. So I just jacked it up until the suspension dangled a bit, using the on-board bottle jack and gave the LBJs another squirt, by reaching round the wheels.

So, next challenge is to track down something like a nice paving slab or two, so I can raise my jack up a bit and get the fecker off the ground. I don't remember having to put anything underneath the jack, when I did the LBJs on my Collie. So this truck must have a bit more ground clearance.

Don't use paving slabs.... they have a nasty habit of cracking into little pieces ..... get some decent hard wood blocks to use on top of the jack.... old railway sleeper off cuts are good .

 

[Tractionman]

Well done Stu, a monumental success!
The Irwin certainly came up to expectations and more, and your purchase of the die grinder paid off before the initial job it was purchased for - a winner all round !

 

[stuzbot]

Don't use paving slabs.... they have a nasty habit of cracking into little pieces .....

Good point. I'm sure I've seen a scaffold board or two lying about somewhere in the neighbourhood, some months back. They'd probably do the job nicely. If only I could remember where I saw them!

...and your purchase of the die grinder paid off before the initial job it was purchased for...

Funnily enough, I'd been on the verge of sending the die grinder back. I was a bit disappointed at how bulky it was --especially since I'd bought it to allow for grinding rust in areas where my mini angle grinder wouldn't fit.

I s'pose it's earned itself a reprieve now. In fact, I've just ordered one of these for it.

If it works OK, I'll have the best of both worlds; a straight die grinder, but with Foredom-esque flex-shaft capabilities, when needed. I've got a few Katsu tools already and [so far] they've been pretty decent quality, as far as generic Chinese "We churn them out. You stick your own label on them" tools go.

 

[Tractionman]

Great !!They do have their limits in 'bend' angle, and will need lubrication, (drip fed oil while holding it vertical) from time to time, but a useful accessory.
I had one with a grease nipple on it that I inherited, (probably expensive) but it still snapped after lots of use by me and previous over the years. I found holding grinder in one hand and controlling flexi in other was better for control , rather than leave grinder on floor to do its own thing.
If you come across any proper old slabs around your ancient outhouses, they will be granite and dont break up like the light grey things we have now, easy to tell the difference.

 

[stuzbot]

Latest blockbuster.....

Bring your own popcorn.

 

[frank rabbets]

I don't think it necessary to remove the spinning tin tube from the locking nut. Hammering the extractor on would soon chew through that to the head of the bolt. Not sure if the extractor would chew into Toyota locking wheel nuts. They may well be hardened.

 

[AndycruiserguyLomas]

TBF I had to get all 4 locking wheel nuts off an 80 recently that didn't have a locking wheel nut socket with it. I got all of them off with a combination of AF, Whitworth and various near fitted sockets knocked on. The Irwins are invaluable though, especially on 30+ year old rusty boltheads and nuts.