LSD or ARB

[Geordie Paul]

As the post suggests! I am wanting to put an LSD in the front of my 95. Westcoast are looking into what kind is the best compromise between on road manners and off road ability.

I was going to put in an ARB but i like the idea of the front locker being totally mechanical and i also thought an LSD would be easier on an independant front end (i.e. not as harsh on half shafts/CVs etc) plus they are loads cheaper!!!

I know the 80 series has no problem with a front locker but i don't think the 90 series front end is as strong and i don't fancy getting a new half shaft every weekend.

I still have to find one but KAM, Quaife and Detroit Truetrac are all getting back to me. As too is West Coast.

Has anyone on here any experience of a front LSD?

If i can't get an LSD then i will have to save a bit longer and go for the ARB and some heavy duty half shafts.

Thanks for any info

 

[Cptsideways]

Fitting an LSD to the front is never a wise idea (Torsen diffs excepted) a plate type diff is an aggressive locking action, combined with steering is never a good thing!

Torsen diffs are different & are worm geared diffs so dont lock in the same way as plate diffs do.


A lockable diff is different again as you choose when its locking which is fine off road

 

[Geordie Paul]

My only concern with the ARB is that there is no give at all when locked and i am not sure if the Independant front end is up to it. The truetrac for example only locks to about 75% which means there is still room for some slip which i would have thought is better for the half shafts. This is only what i think, i have no fact to back this up as i have not had an LSD in the front before.

 

[Geordie Paul]

None of the mentioned LSD are friction plates they are all a helical gear type torque bias diffs (no clutches or friction plate to wear out) giving progressive torque bias. The Quaife diff is the same as that used in the 300bhp ford focus RS

 

[goodoldboy]

I'LL stick with the acid thanks

 

[Chris]

Well GP, interesting question. For my penneth, I'd have to say - don't bother. OK so why?

As one of the very few people who have fitted a locker to the front of a 90 series, I would say that the off road capability increase is very little return on investment. And that's fully locked. Having a front LSD would make little or no difference in my view. You'd be better spending the money on mud terrains or a winch and a ground anchor. Until we can get 90 IFS properly lifted, ball joint drop kits, diff drops that don't foul on the bash plates etc etc then you will always be battling ground clearance and in most situations where you will want a front lock up, it's because you will be in deep mud and probably grounded already. No grip at the front is no grip whether both wheels are turning or not.

Not wishing to rain on your parade - just being objective here. Fitting a front locker is almost as much as buying a clunker of an 80 to go and play in. I have had 90 and 95 and 120 of course and now the 80 and no disrespect to any of them (I loved them all) but you can't turn a 90 into an 80. I have yet to see a LWB 95 with a locker in the front, but I suspect that it will be marginally better in this situation than the shortie, but still a very long way from an 80. This weekend SAE grounded on a hump in one of the lanes. With muddies on. I an not sure that even with a front locker he'd have got over the last bit. I think maybe a LWB might have. But how often do you need this?

Your dollar entirely, but seriously I would not expect invincible off road performance from either an LSD or locker in Colorado over and above - and I stress the over and above part, a regular 90 series. The centre and rear lockers do a great job to start with.

Why did I fit a front locker? Easy. Because I could. And if that's your reason too then go for it. Welcome to the club

Chris

 

[Geordie Paul]

Thanks for the advice Chris, i don't totally agree with all of what you have said but watch this space......i like a challenge

(P.S. Just because i disagree with some of this does not mean i don't value your advice, just means i have to up my game in the mods stakes )

 

[Chris]

One thing that you can't teach is experience. And.. advice is easy to give, but not so easy to accept. So fair challenge from you.

It's your dollar entirely. Like I said, go for it. Be interested to know what you don't agree with though. Maybe that is worth exploring.

Simple choice from my perspective. If I was faced with deep jungle mud and a life saving mission and I could choose one option to fit to my Colorado, would it be:
A) a front diff locking / semi locking system

or

B) a winch

I've made my choice.

There is no situation that a locker will get you out of that a winch won't. (please, no smart Alec replies - I am trying to be objective). Pound for pound a front system on a 90 simply does not repay you. Fact. Having re read my post, I can't quite see what you would disagree with. But that's absolutely fine. I don't have a problem at all and look forward to seeing your build. Any help with it, just ask. Been there, done that if you like. But as TP will tell you, you do need to watch those front drive shafts on a full locker. My point still stands that if you go for a semi locker then you get even less grip benefit for your money. It's kinda obvious. I had a centre and rear locker on my 90 and managed to completely blow the ring and pinion on the rear. That was with an open front diff!

More than happy to chat. Delighted to help if I can. Maybe TP would like to join in as Lil Blue's current owner.

Chris

 

[TonyP]

Well I inherited LB with 3 lockers.... did I know what I was getting and getting myself into.... no not really. Yup defo a newbe... however I have now had LB for over a year and am starting to learn when to use and not use the front locker. Having destoryed the front drive shaft twice, I can now change these very quickly

I will now only use the front locker if I am in really loose/muddy terrain. If and when I engage the diff I have to keep on repeating to myself to go easy with the loud peddle. Okay this is me being very cautious as I really don't want to spend another £200 on fixing something.

As Chris says I have got more use out of the winch than I have out of the locker... If money is not object, cool get one in there... I need some company, but with what I know now, I would actually spend my money on more aggressive tyres

 

[Geordie Paul]

All of that i totally agree with, its wether or not it is possible to make a collie as good as an 80 offroad With an independant front end it is not possible, but i am wondering if i can fit a solid front axle from an 80? That is my plan, Paul at West Coast said it is possible but i am just at the explorative stage at the minute.

This would solve the diff/cv/driveshaft issue and let me keep the 3.0l D4D!

It would be too easy to buy an 80, i like the 95, thats why i bought one and i do like a challenge. With a 104" wheelbase and smaller overall size i think it would be pretty awesome!

Now the question is, do you think its possible

 

[Geordie Paul]

Or should i go ARB, heavy duty half shafts and CVs......just a thought?

And as to why.............I would just like to make it a little different, thats all

 

[Chris]

Blimey, that's not quite what I meant. Can you turn a 90 INTO an 80 wasn't really on the cards. Yes, you can. A short wheelbase 80. If you hang on, I shall be back with a pic in a moment. I rather think that this is less of a disagreement and more of a running off with the goalposts to be honest GP.

We're all for different on here.

Right, off to search me files. Hand on a tick.....

C

 

[Geordie Paul]

Thanks mate After have a crack with Paul at West Coast he suggested it and its had me thinking ever since

 

[Chris]

Right, here you go. Hope you are handy on the spanners and metal glueing. Plus deep pockets!!

Chris

 

[Geordie Paul]

Thats what i want mine to be like!!!!!!! (only longer!) I need more info............where do i start..........selling the house

 

[Chris]

Thought you'd like that. OK start by buying an 80 - chop it and then stick your body on top

Seriously?

I have no idea. But you may need to talk to the bank.

Chris

 

[Chris Green90]

Would it be appropriate to say then that the biggest problem with the 90 in regards to offroad ability would be the IFS??? Just seems to me thant not having it opens up a whole load of possabilities
Chris

 

[Chris]

Well sort of. It's not just the IFS, but the inability to work with the 90's IFS easily to give greater tyre clearance to provide greater ground clearance. Look at one of them potato machines (if you have seen one) thin spindly tyres, but a 6' ground clearance. Doesn't matter what the suspension is, it's the distance from hub to the ground. They are not limited by design like the 90. On an IFS it is a lot harder (£££) to get gains there. Bigger tyres is the easy choice but much more than 33" is not simple on a 90. On a 100 which is IFS too, you can get much bigger rubber in there because of what you have to work with. So, really it's not IFS that is the main limitation, it's what the IFS is attached to. If any of that makes sense. The problem with any IFS is that it has to be attached somewhere that is difficult to extend whereas with live axle the possibilities are - well pretty unlimited. Longer radius arms, brake hose and propshaft and you end up with Bigfoot!

Chris

 

[Andrew Prince]

Now the question is, do you think its possible

Certainly possible - just a question of time & money

Cris Ingram of R&D Off-road in Cape Town, SA did something similar on a 90/95. Maybe have a trawl of LCCSA or drop Cris a line to find out more.