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Morning start problems (Solved)

I'm just about to go back out with the multimeter and check them all again :thumbup:
 
I'm leaning towards physical ignition switch.... Be good to know if you get 12v off that guage fuse...
 
Fuses check out with a multimeter but i can't get my styumpy meter prongs in the holes for a voltage check. Need to fashion something to poke in the fuse holes...... :angry-extinguishfl:
 
In fact while you've got your multimeter out, might be an idea to test all fuses in-situ - just with a continuity test across the two test points.
 
Sam,
I've nothing further to add to Karl's helpful posts with electrics, but regards the broken key,
For the key trap to work/release the key, it must be pushed in slightly, to enable the key to be fully turned to off position, if so, you may then be able to get a grip of broken key and pull out your snapped section Of course this is assuming it is not already in the 'off' position.
I've had trouble with mine in the past, sticking and not able to turn to off position to release key.
A good squirt of switch cleaner down the barrel solved that problem.
 
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Done a bit more digging, you also need to check:

fuse 56 AM1 50A
fuse 62 AM2 30A

They will be in the engine bay fuse box. Not sure these have testing points on them but you should be able to visually inspect them from the top, or pull them out and do a continuity test.

These are related to the ignition switch.
 
Ok - all fuses check out visually and with a multimeter check.

One by one I have taken each blade fuse out (from the inside panel and the engine bay), eyeballed it, done a mulimeter check on the blades and returned it.
I have now also gone back and done a mulimeter check on all blade fuses while in situ using the fuse testing points just in case.
As for the square fuse types, I've eyeballed them closely (with the magic of phone zoom) - they all look ok.

Voltage checks:

Inside Panel - Key in the OFF / LOCK posiion

[--] [--] [--]
[--] [--] [--]
[--] [--] [--]
[--] [--] [--]
[--] [42] [49]
[--] [40] [48]
[--] [41] [47]
[--]

Inside Panel - Key in the ON position:

[39] [46] [53]
[38] [45] [52]
[37] [44] [--]
[36] [43] [--]
[--] [42] [49]
[--] [40] [48]
[--] [41] [47]
[--]

Engine Bay - Key in the ON position:
ALL fuses have 12v+ EXCEPT:

[14] [15]


So, to finally answer your question Karl - no... no voltage through the 7.5a :think:

@Tractionman - The key push thing caught me out the first time I took the LC out when I bought it ... and for longer than I care to admit ... but at the moment it does push and turn to the off position ok - it just doesn't come out. The key hasn't actually broken - the fob has come off ... so it still has the little T shape bit on the end that screws into the fob - just enough to get finger tips to to turn it etc.

I haven't gone through the book to see what has power and what doesn't (or what should and shouldn't) yet but I'll update this if anything jumps out. Might have another go over the weekend too - it was torrential rain today so I might have missed something with rain running down my neck.

I really appreciate your feedback and time today folks - thank you.
 
Can't actually help with getting the key out, but you can get replacement key housings off eBay. Just make sure you also move the transponder to the new housing.
 
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Cheers @TonyP - I bought some a few years ago but they tend to be a bit weak! This was the second to give up the ghost. Actually, come to think of it, they might have come from Amazon :think: Anyway, I'm pretty sure I've still got a blank left in the cupboard but it needs cutting - not so easy in these times as it turns out.
Just need to get this bugger out and pixie juice back. I'll be more than happy with the valet key! :lol:
 
Thanks for the update!

Hmm, so I just went and checked mine, and looked at voltage on that 7.5A fuse.

With key in LOCK or ACC, its 0V.

Switching it to ON gives 12V on that fuse.

I think that fuse is fed from the ignition switch, so if thats knackered and not powering that circuit, that could explain your lack of dash lights.... I'll see if I can find any other info around on that circuit ....

So what positions does your key go to? LOCK, ACC, ON? Or cant you move it to LOCK?

BTW I had a key cut from a place online, by sending them the VIN and showing the V5.
 
Hmm, this shows that Gauge fuse comes right off the ignition switch. You've visually checked AM2 (engine bay fuse 62, 30A). Might be an idea to remove that and check you're getting 12V on one side of it - just to rule it out. I assume thats all OK though....

In which case, it has to be a dodgy ignition switch I think ? Hotwire anyone? :)
 

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Thank you again Karl for checking that. That's really helpful :thumbup:

I can get the key to LOCK (with a push turn), ACC and ON - but not round to start.

Starting to feel like you're right about the igntion switch. Maybe the long crank to try and start it fried it. If that's looped into the Shift Lock "trap" release it could explain both.

The only odd thing there is that I can hear (and feel) a definate click from the ignition when I move the gear into park. Maybe there's another switch-controlled mechanism involed in the release - or maybe the click is ineffective :think: ... either way ... I think you're right - the switch must be the next suspect.
 
Just ran out to check fuse 62 (30amp) in the engine bay.
Pulled it out and checked it with the multimeter - all good.
Got 12v+ from one side with the key in the ON the position.
 
Ok Sam, that makes it easier to grab hold of then.
Just to throw something else in the mix that might be relevent, I believe there is a solenoid coupled to the ignition switch/key trap. Maybe that is the click you can hear, beyond that, I can't be any help...........Karl !!
 
Look at that power distribution pdf from earlier. It says the ignition powers three fuses:

32 IGN 10A
33 SRS 10A
34 GAUGE 7.5A

You havent got anything on any of those fuses have you? I need to check 32 and 33 on mine, but I think again that points to a knackered switch....
 
Just to throw something else in the mix that might be relevent, I believe there is a solenoid coupled to the ignition switch/key trap. Maybe that is the click you can hear, beyond that, I can't be any help...........Karl !!

I wonder where that gets its power from?!
 
True Karl - no power to 32 / 33 / 34.

If the solonoid is part of the shift lock system - it's powered via [45 ECU-IG], the brake light STOP and 7.5 ACC as per the pdf.
 

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Hmm, I think my money is still on some sort of physical ignition switch failure. From that diagram the shift lock ECU is a possibility but we're just getting too many failures here.

The fact that you cant physically turn the key to START must mean there is a physical problem with the ignition switch I think? What else would prevent it from turning?

Even the immobiliser shouldnt stop it turning, as the the immobiliser would just let the engine start and then cut it out.

The same physical problem with the ignition might explain why you cant withdraw the key, regardless of what the solenoid is actually doing.

Physical ignition failure is the only thing that makes sense to me, where a single problem could explain everything we're seeing.

..... I think?
 
Just in case you've not seen these


 
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