New addition to the motor pool.

[Chris]

So the Vexhall Antler has gone at last, though in truth it wasn't that bad really, to be replaced by this

Yay, back to a Toyota. Hybrid / petrol. First impression. Errmm, it doesn't hang about.

Niggles. What niggles already?
Doesn't have puddle / courtesy lights which I found handy when you drop your keys
Doesn't have any coin tray or card holder for things like fuel cards, car park passes
Stalks are impossible to see behind the steering wheel spokes
Boot's a bit small
The entry, ignition, start, stop, Acc set up is like trying to launch a Saturn V rocket.
Doesn't have auto on the windows except the driver's door.

But other than that, it's a tidy thing. And it has enough ground clearance to be useful.

I am also sure I didn't order full leather, but I've got it. Already it's a bit sweaty.

I should add. I opened the bonnet. Saw this and shut it again. Clearly owners aren't meant to go in there.

 

[silvercruiser]

Looks OK to me Chris.

I did look at the diesel version for myself last year. but glad i stuck with a 120. im not sure id fit all the family, dogs and luggage like i do with the LC

 

[Chris]

I don't have that consideration to make luckily. This is just a work car with only me in it 99% of the time. I will fit a tow bar though so that I can pull the adventure trailer if I need to.

 

[madmanmart]

 

[Brian S]

The only problem I see Chris, IT'S CLEAN!!!! no mud outside, and spotless inside, when you taking it off road

Joking aside, very nice motor, impressive is the word

 

[Gary820]

Nice motor Chris.
Are they are plug in or charge itself?

Don't jam a screw driver in the bright orange bits and it'll be fine lol

 

[Chris]

Ugly, no road tax, no insurance, no maintenance costs, free servicing no repair bills, no depreciation, no damage repair to worry about, instant replacement, hand back when I've done with it and get another one. And I don't even pay personal tax on it.

So who cares?

 

[Chris]

No Gary, it's not a plug in. It's purely Hybrid regenerative braking technology and all that. Electric up to 30 mph then the petrol 2.5 cuts in. If the battery is low or there's high demand, it also kicks in. But the electric motor like KERS on an F1 car also works with the engine. Floored it at 70 on the motorway and it actually pushed me back in my seat. It is not slow. And off the mark, the motor gives instant max torque and power. Stick it in sport mode and it's rapid. Even when the engine is running it's incredibly quiet.

 

[Gary820]

That removes the chore of plugging it in to fully charge then.
Yeah leccy cars do go well, first time I drove one I was pleasantly surprised.

All going well I'm over your way 23-25th this month laning/camping.

 

[Mblinko]

. Ooh, looks colourful and complicated. At least it has scart sockets

 

[Chris]

23rd to 25th is when the Overland Show is on Gary. Come on down, it's not that far for a day out.

SCART, yes. I knew I recognised the technology.

 

[hopeless wanderer]

So the Vexhall Antler has gone at last, though in truth it wasn't that bad really, to be replaced by this

Yay, back to a Toyota. Hybrid / petrol. First impression. Errmm, it doesn't hang about.

Niggles. What niggles already?
Doesn't have puddle / courtesy lights which I found handy when you drop your keys
Doesn't have any coin tray or card holder for things like fuel cards, car park passes
Stalks are impossible to see behind the steering wheel spokes
Boot's a bit small
The entry, ignition, start, stop, Acc set up is like trying to launch a Saturn V rocket.
Doesn't have auto on the windows except the driver's door.

But other than that, it's a tidy thing. And it has enough ground clearance to be useful.

I am also sure I didn't order full leather, but I've got it. Already it's a bit sweaty.

View attachment 105701

View attachment 105702


View attachment 105703

View attachment 105704

I should add. I opened the bonnet. Saw this and shut it again. Clearly owners aren't meant to go in there.

View attachment 105707

oooh nice colour... I had a Highlander on hire for a couple of month and it was a really comfortable car for long journeys. It looks just as comfortable and a lot better looking than the Highlander in the grill too.

Don't go sticking it on 37's the dealer will go apeshit.

 

[flint]

I don’t mean to sound negative and bearing in mind it’s a company car (lovely) rather than a personal purchase and speaking generally, but is this really the way forward for cars ? I get the regenerative braking bit, but is using a 2.5 engine to generate electricity to charge a battery to power an electric motor to turn the wheels not prone to power losses ? Isn’t it more efficient to just use a smaller engine to drive the wheels directly, dumping the weight of the electric motor and battery and all the other associated gubbins ? I understand that it might mean a bit less in the way of exhaust fumes being chucked out around town until the battery needs a top up, but overall energy use including manufacture and eventual battery replacement is surely greater. Or am I missing something ?

 

[Graham]

Exactly what Fay would like for next car.
How ever, she has made it known.
1. Must be auto.
2. Must be petrol.
3. Must be white, or maybe black

 

[Chris]

Flint, good questions, but sorry, not ones I can answer.

It's doing 50mpg so that's better than any car doing 49 mpg. In town under 30 mph it only runs on battery with the engine off completely so it's not polluting at all.

The electric motor also turns the wheels with the petrol engine so the thing isn't working hard chucking out gasses. All I can say is that on balance pretty much any car bought today will be more friendly than any car bought 5 years ago.

 

[Gary820]

They charge quite quickly with braking and on over run (bmw used a similar system) the motor becomes a generator and when your driving on the engine it doesn't use that much energy to charge either. Battery type makes a difference to how quick they can charge too.
The motor replaces a torque converter (toyota use a cvt iirc?) and often have a smaller fuel tank so weight is similar

Different vehicle but the i3 you barely need the brakes as works that hard as a generator on overrun it 'brakes' the car and puts the brake lights on.

The active hybrids (self charging) we had were 3.0 turbo petrols
The plug in hybrids we now have are 2.0 turbo petrols even in a X5 and you wouldn't believe it when floor it.

The Toyota hybrids are brilliant and have been doing it longer then most manufacturers, it's why I asked if they've gone plug in yet.

Toyota have in the UK hydrogen powered cars and other manufacturers will follow. Bmw had hydrogen awhile back and it didn't come to much, the technology they're using currently is Toyota (I've seen the Toyota badge with my own eyes in one) and I think that will be the future over current hybrids.

There's only a couple of re fuelling stations in the UK but go back a few years there wasn't anywhere to really to charge an electric car.

hybrids with fossil fuel engines are a short term solution imo and the hydrogen will take over.



Ref the overland show Chris I'll see how the weekend is going and might pop over for a look while the wife is at home lol.

 

[flint]

Thanks Chris and Gary for the informative replies, I was being a bit of a Luddite there. I hadn’t realised how much things like design, battery and materials technology etc. have moved on since cars like the Prius came out, much more efficient now and with the full torque of an electric motor available as soon as it’s running, pretty nippy I'm sure. Fuel cell technology does seem like the probable way forward as far as range and overall pollution goes and the availability of hydrogen and costs will surely improve as more manufacturers and consumers take the idea up. In some ways, I suppose, in effect, drive trains will be simpler, just a fuel cell and perhaps a motor in each wheel for 4x4s (plus a fair bit of pretty serious control wizardry). Different types of knowledge needed, I must do more reading up !

 

[Chris]

I'm sure there is more to come yes. To be fair, there is no reason why you couldn't plug this in to charge it, but the battery is not the same in capacity as a full electric car. This is supposed to be silent and pollution free in traffic and practical to use without having to stop to plug it in. Every time you coast the display shows energy going back to the battery. When you brake it puts even more in. Most of the time it's fully charged with the sort of driving I do. So I'm driving a heavy but still fuel efficient petrol car, doubtless with CATs and whatnot pulling out the worst of the nasties. When not needed the petrol engine just switches off. It doesn't run only to charge the batteries. Yes that would be daft. It's a regular engine. I'd like to do a 0-60 on it. With the electric unit, the petrol motor and the auto box in sport mode, coupled to the 4x4 grip, it's quite sprightly, officer.

Just not sure how it combines the electric and petrol motors into one drive.

 

[flint]

I’ve just worked my way through the wikipedia explanation of the Hybrid Synergy Drive system ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_Synergy_Drive )……phew, there's some clever stuff going on ! Interesting that it uses a CVT to keep the petrol part at optimum speed when in use, a bit (lot) more sophisticated than in the old Daf setup though. Definitely a case of get in and enjoy the lovely ride, no place for a set of spanners and a hammer there I think, the thought of working on it makes the magnetite in my brain stand on end.

 

[Gary820]

They're definitely a clever but of kit.
My guess for Toyota not going plug in is purely down to having a system that works so well, you'd need to add more bits and change to lithium ion battery, I think they use nickel metal hydride ones. Plus they've invested a lot of money in fuel cell development.

The plug in hybrids we have (not i cars) will do anything from 19 to 30 miles model depending and upto about 60mph electric, they use regenerative braking etc too but the battery doesn't charge as fast.

The systems I work on have either a motor in place of a torque converter which can be electronically de coupled from the engine for electric only or connected and power the motor for combined driving. The engine can be started very smoothly by connecting it while in motion too.

Other systems we have are axle split, motor on one axle and the petrol drive train on the other. Gives 4 wheel drive apart from the X5 as has a traditional transfer box.

Both types work really well.

I think Toyota use a similar set up with a motor on the rear axle for the 4 wheel drive hybrids but I've not read up much on them tbh.