Pacemaker headers / Pro-Speed exhaust

[Julian]

Jon , are the cats new, surely you have some come back with Pro Speed as they are not working?
What a saga this is turning out to be, it shouldn't be this hard
I have used these people in the past
http://www.haywardandscott.com/
But they are a long way from you

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

Yep brand new high flow bla bla high quality twin 200 cpsi sports cats - £420.00 inc. Maybe I should have been suspicious they were that cheap? I *should* have some come back on Pro Speed but do I really want the same fitted again even if they offered? I'm still chewing it over and deciding how best to sort this out.

 

[Rob]

If you dont want his replacements offer to send them back and ask for a refund. It clearly doesnt do what he told you it would do so im sure consumer rights are on your side.

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

If you dont want his replacements offer to send them back and ask for a refund. It clearly doesnt do what he told you it would do so im sure consumer rights are on your side.

That's how it works in an ideal world but I'm afraid experience tells me that they say it worked when they put it on and if it doesn't work now then I must have done x/y/z which is not their fault/problem and it's up to me to prove none of x/y/z happened. When I have them cut off I may give it a try but don't expect a lot.

 

[Rob]

did they test for emissions when they first put it on?

 

[Gav Peter]

Although I doubt you want to try anyone too far from home again Jon, we've got PECO up here on the Wirral & you've got a place to stay overnight at if you need to do so...

They did a system for Jim (Jim4x4) & he was delighted with their service. I've been in to see them on a couple of occassions & they were extremely freindly & helpful.

They also put a system onto a mates Punto which he was delighted with...

Hey, its food for thought... Might just be worth a call to them to chew the fat... I hope you get this boxed off ok pdq dude... What a royal PITA!!!

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

did they test for emissions when they first put it on?

No they didn't. Tester says it has non cat vehicle emissions levels so they're not just not very good they essentialy doing nothing at all. Last test (OEM CATs) was extremely low BTW. At the moment I'm inclined to buy some Magnaflow universal CATs as they're a known brand and weld them in myself. Stupid me for thinking it would be less trouble to have someone else sort the exhaust out than doing it myself

 

[Chas]

Well I'm off to beddy byes now for an early start for Cardiff in the morning, I just hope I don't get the troubles you have had Jon , Nite nite.
Chas

 

[Charlie]

Well I'm off to beddy byes now for an early start for Cardiff in the morning, I just hope I don't get the troubles you have had Jon , Nite nite.
Chas

I’m waiting with interest, for photos and your comments. I’ve still to decide where to get my exhaust system manufactured.

 

[TobyJug]

Finally actually read the whole of this thread...

I am sorry to hear about all the trouble...
I am hoping that my noisy pipe will pass an MOT in July or is it August?!

Hope you get it sorted and hope there is a way you can try and get some cash back of the buggers....
Cheeky so and so's about...

 

[Rob]

if you don't get your cash back, try get credit, you might just send a driver with your newly acquired white 80

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

I've been gathering information and mulling it all over to see what to do next. On the cat issue, from what I can gather, aftermarket are never as clean as OEM and the OEM's on the 100 are twin cats per bank where I now have a single high flow cat per bank ...

Having a single 200 cpsi cat per bank plus the headers would account for a lot of extra noise as well, OEM cats tend to be quite restrictive.

I've spoken to Charlie and he says that after research it probably needs twin cats per bank (fair play to him for saying this) which he has offered to have it back in to fit or he also suggested having it tested on LPG now that's up and running and sticking with single cats for performance. I've read on the net that some sports cats need to be really hot to work properly so I'm going to book it in for an emissions only test and give it a really good thrashing beforehand and see what the result is before making a decision on that. It's possible the tester didn't get it anywhere near warm enough as they just look at the coolant temp gauge as a guide. If I can sneak it through with thrashing and additives I would settle for that.

Charlie has also offered to have another crack at the noise problem with (based on a phone description not a drawing!) a double decker main silencer, so the gas does a 180 out back along the side and a 180 into a 2nd stacked silencer. The OEM silencer was HUGE so there should be room for this, we'll see.

I'm always a bit cynical about likely follow up service when things start going wrong and assume it will be a battle / none existant because that's what usually seems to happen but actually Charlie sounds determined to get it so I'm happy with it so I will try again on the 25th but ask for an extra tail pipe as well so I can carry on experimenting with the supertrapp if I need to.

 

[adrianr]

Hi Jon

Years back we had emissions failures on an Rx7. I ended up running it near red line to get the cat really, really hot, then doing the test immediately - exhaust was so hot it melted the plastic on the probe, and the tubing was starting to smoke, but it did pass, just.

Would an additive like acetone or similar help in completing the burn to reduce the exhaust contamination?

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

Would an additive like acetone or similar help in completing the burn to reduce the exhaust contamination?

When I went back to the tester yesterday to find out a bit more he said there are cat compatible additives you can use to reduce the emisions so I'm looking into that. I hadn't considered acetone though which I do have a tin of Looking at the numbers, it's the CO that's high, the HC is low and the advice was that's a pretty positive indication of insufficient cat function rather than unburnt fuel / poor engine tune. This is consistant with the other observations about after market vs OEM cats so an additive may not make much difference.

 

[Gav Peter]

so an additive may not make much difference

But will it help you get flames coming out of the tail pipe!?!

 

[adrianr]

i reckon you 18 inch tailpipe is most likely for that prize.

 

[adrianr]

Hi Jon

for what its worth I Just called a pal of mine who has done MOT's for me for about 15 years now and he said (without seeing the numbers on the test machine itself) in addition to checking the cat is sufficient size for the gas flow to ALSO check all the joints and the lambda sensor.

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

for what its worth I Just called a pal of mine who has done MOT's for me for about 15 years now and he said (without seeing the numbers on the test machine itself) in addition to checking the cat is sufficient size for the gas flow to ALSO check all the joints and the lambda sensor.

Thanks for that.

I've just got back from some more testing with it nice and hot, did petrol & LPG. On the 'natural idle' test CO is 0.00 for both fuels, limit is 0.5 . Fast idle CO is .57 for petrol, 0.27 for LPG, limit is 0.30 . HC for petrol is 00045 and LPG is 00044, limit is 00200. Lambda for both fuels is 1.0 .

Last years MOT figures were fast idle CO 0.00 and HC 00007 so a pretty big difference.

So it will pass on LPG and I think the tester said for LPG he only has to do a natural idle test anyway.

The 0.00 on natural idle plus the 1.0 lambda mean it's running fine. The similar petrol vs LPG HC figures suggest the LPG is running essentially the same as on petrol. The natural idle figure also means the cats are working but at higher flow rates e.g. the fast idle test they don't have sufficient capacity which is the conclusion we'd already come to but it's good to see numbers backing up that theory.

Now I just need to decide if I should rely on LPG for future MOTs and stick with single cats for performance or have an extra cat fitted on each pipe while I can have it done cheap i.e. I imagine I'd pay for the 2 extra cats but perhaps not so much for the fitting of them ...

 

[adrianr]

The numbers do confirm your suspicion.

Pity you cant rent the extra cats for the mot and then run straight decat pipes for the remainder of the year.