Random noises - help!?!

[Dave_S]

Okay, so I have a new random noise to worry about.

I've a 24v 4.2 manual, 180,000 miles, no smoke, runs fine, etc... but has just started making a slight metallic tinkling noise from somewhere around the engine - almost like a light chain rattling or a heat shield vibrating. It doesn't do it when the engine is absolutely cold first thing on start up, BTW. We've looked all around the exhaust system and can't find anything loose, so we're kind of stumped, though if pushed I would say its louder around the down pipe/turbo area maybe.

Only thing we have done different recently BTW was an oil and filter change - not sure what it was running before, but its got GTX 10W/40 in it now - could it be related or just a coincidence?!?

Any ideas gratefully appreciated, as we're going to be going on hols in the truck soon and I'm not sure whether to be concerned about this or not!?!

 

[joinerman]

It's not a ticking sound then ! from the sump area. if it is then could be big end bearings, much more common on the 12v 's though.

 

[Dave_S]

It's not a ticking sound then ! from the sump area. if it is then could be big end bearings, much more common on the 12v 's though.

Well, TBH whilst I've heard of BEB failure I've never actually heard what a ticking BEB sounds like on a Cruiser engine - but to my uneducated ears it sounds too light and kind of rattly to be a big end going - wouldn't that be more of a heavy knock?

 

[joinerman]

The ticking sound is not dissimilar to when you press the start igniter button on the gas hob only multiplied many times if you follow me.

 

[Dave_S]

I think I get what you mean - not sure if that would describe this or not to be honest with you! Any way of checking short of dropping the sump - i.e. are there other symptoms I can look for? As I said, its quiet from cold and no smoke or loss of power if that's any help...?

 

[joinerman]

No, only way is drop the sump, if your going to do that you may as well replace the beb's anyway, I'm not trying to worry you saying this is your problem i may be completely wrong, i replaced mine when my started ticking & glad i did, but going back to oil changes, even after i did my beb's if i used 15/40 oil mine would still tick, if i use 10/40 like you have then the tickings gone I'm assuming 10/40 is correct for 24v's !!!!

 

[clivehorridge]

After all that's been said I'm concerned about my BEBs as there's 340,000 kms on mine and despite no ticking sound, it's obviously well overdue.

Apart from the obvious answer "change them anyway" which I probably will, is the HZJ as prone to BEB failure as the HDJ? I don't think it's such a stupid question, the turbo gives the engine a lot of extra grunt particularly on acceleration, and that significant extra power must have a detrimental effect on the same components compared with the non-turbo engine. I'm presuming of course (without knowledge) that the components are the same between the two engines.

Any opinions on whether I should be as paranoid as the rest of you?

 

[Dave_S]

Hmmm. Bit torn - not convinced it sounds like BEBs from what you've said, and the fact that its a 24v... but don't fancy grenading the motor, as it seems a good un. Also don't fancy throwing £400 odd at the garage to get them done and find that its something daft instead... part of my problem is that there aren't any Cruiser specialists on the rock I live on, so its a question of using the most reputable garage I can find (who have a good reputation for 4x4s). Personal circumstances mean I don't have the time/inclination to have ago at the BEBs myself right now. Decisions decisions!!

 

[Chris]

Dave, swapping the BEBs is genuinely something that you could tackle unless (please forgive me) you are the most inept clusterflop on the planet. We can talk you through each stage and give you some support should you try it. In simple terms you undo a ring of small bolts, prise the sump off, get a face full of oil, undo dome big bolts, take the bearings out, put new ones in, put new bolts in and then tighten then correctly and put the sump back on. There is little to go wrong, very little in the way of any technical skill either. If you can afford to be without the vehicle for a couple of days you could drop the sump, pull the bearings and put them back in again. All you'd need would be the new bolts and some instant gasket. If you go to a garage, they don't need to understand 4x4s. This is a bog standard job. All they need is the procedure for the bolts which we can give you.

Chris

 

[frank rabbets]

Hi Dave. Big End tick is very regular and increases as you increase engine revs. If it is an irregular noise it will not be BEB. Also if tinkling means a noise like a metallic ringing, as in dropping a ring spanner on a concrete floor, it will not be BEB. I have exactly the same noise with my 24v. It seams to be coming from the aircon pump but does not alter when the pump engages. I've had it for years and I cannot hear it in the cab. It does not worry me other than curiosity. If you use a piece of rubber tube about 60 cm long as a stethoscope you might be able to isolate the sound. Let me know what you find you might help ME! Frank.

 

[Dave_S]

Cheers guys. Chris - its not a question of mechanical competence, its just a time thing, given a full time job, a part time job, and two little uns under 4 years which I try to spend time with when I'm not working... Stethoscope idea sounds like an idea - I'll give it a go and see what I can find! Thanks again.

 

[Roger Fairclough]

Big ends don't tinkle. They knock, especially on the over-run. The classic test is oil pressure. Does this motor have an oil pressure gauge? Better still plumb in a capillary style 270 deg. gauge.

Replacing big-end shells, for me, would be a walk in the park. For a complete novice they will need a blow by blow list of how to do it plus a similar sized list of what not do do. It's all very easy to inadvertently forget a process or sequence that to the professional is all part and parcel of doing the job. I suggest that you print out the relevant pages of the w/manual and then add on the "how to do it".

Am I being my usual cynical self?

Probably but in my book a complete novice needs more than "some support" before they consider taking on this job.

Roger

 

[Dave_S]

Only got the stock oil pressure gauge at the mo - on idle she sits bang on the 1/3 marker, and goes up to the 2/3 marker at around 3000 rpm. I have a mate with a proper professional oil pressure gauge - worth fitting and checking before we get into BEB territory?

 

[Roger Fairclough]

The oil pump sends oil under pressure into the oil gallery that runs parallel to the c/shaft. The oil passes from the gallery directly into the main bearings and then via drillings in the c/shaft to the big-ends. Any excess clearance in the big ends will reduce the oil pressure, from a little to a lot. Having a test on the oil pressure will help to eliminate or confirm big end issues.

As an indication, my KZJ70 is fitted with the 1KZ-T engine. The 1/3rd marker on the gauge equates to a genuine 48 psi. The halfway is 70 psi. With the oil up yo temperature, I get 19 psi at tickover rising to 68 psi at 3,000 rpm. These figures haven't changed in 130,000 miles.

The manual states the minimum pressures should be 4.3 psi at tickover and 36 - 87 at 3,000 rpm, oil hot.

roger

 

[frank rabbets]

I don't think the oil pressure would be affected by worn big ends especially with these engines as they soon go bang and it is usually only one bearing rattling with the others worn. In my experience the oil pressure relief valve which normally runs slightly open would compensate for big end wear by closing up. If you had an engine with worn bearings throughout then the pressure may drop. I've had big ends rattling on none Toyota engines with oil pressure unaffected, and engines with hardly any pressure with perfectly good bearings. Knowing the quality of Toyota design I would think there is bags of volume flow left in the pump to keep the pressure up with the pressure relief valve slightly closed .I did have zero pressure once when the crankshaft broke across the front web but managed to drive home 50 miles. On stripping the engine I dropped all the mains and big ends only to find they were all perfect. very confusing until I saw the break. Almost a relief as I thought I was going madder. Frank

 

[Roger Fairclough]

I would suggest that Dave carries out an oil pressure test and invests in a stethoscope.

Roger

 

[frank rabbets]

The only way to measure bearing wear is to take them off and measure with plastiguage. Reading his original post the noise is not there when engine is cold=no oil on start up. BEB rattle is worse on startup as the pump has not had time to build up pressure. So I doubt he has BEB noise. An acquaintance had BEB failure on two 12 valve engines. The second one never even made a warning noise. He stopped to talk to his neighbour and left the engine idling for about 20 minutes. When he got in to drive off tatt,tatt, tatt............bang. Frank

 

[Dave_S]

Cheers all. Definitely quiet on start up and until the engine get up to temperature. Think I will start will the oil pressure and stethoscope first before ripping into the bottom end and see how I get on from there.

Any other comments or suggestions welcome - especially if you've had similar random noises!!

 

[Dave_S]

Still none the wiser, so decided to change the BEBS in any case (no harm) and work from there - hopefully get this done in the next 10 days or so... Will advise further in due course....

 

[Rob]

Could be the engine mounts, have heard that they can make very strange noises when they go and are relatively easy to check. Put a bit of wood under the sump and Jack the engine up slowly and check if the mounts have split. Just don't lift the front wheels off the ground as the mounts are not designed to that sort of weight.

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