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RIP Land Rover 1948-2016

Autocar has some good bits as well - I recommend the Calcutta to Calais write up
 
Damn now there is nothing to promote competition in the utilitarian market = would you like your Chelsea tractor in pink or baby blue .
 
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jan/29/last-land-rover-defender-rolls-off-production-line

The last Land Rover Defender rolls off the production line today.

Whilst many of us might be tempted to say "good riddance....", it is worth acknowledging the Land Rover's place in 4x4 history. I might go as far to say that it is the reason why Landcruisers exist in the first place.

Agreed. A sad day IMO. As a former employee (only for 3 years) the workforce there was highly critical of the management decisions that collectively sealed the fate of Land Rover as a force to be reckoned with.

IMO, go back to 1947 prototypes and production vehicles between 48 and the early 60's, and a tougher vehicle would be hard to find.


It all went downhill after that.
RIP
 
I bought a brand new LWB diesel in 1973 and did 75,000 miles in 6 years. The only thing to fail was a lay shaft bearing. The screens did not leak and I had no trouble with the front axle lol.

I fitted a manual shift overdrive on it so had 16 forward gears and 4 reverse !!
 
I wonder how many of us on here would never have become LandCruiser owners, had landrover actually produced a decent, comfortable, reliable, strong vehicle! :think:

I first got into 4wding in Suzuki 4x4's having read far too many horror stories about landy's! :icon-cool:

Then as I began getting out 4wding I would invariably be out with other guys who had bought landrovers! Well.................... there was hardly a trip out without a landrover breaking down atleast once if not multiple times! :crazy:

Defenders look cool! :clap:

And can look seriously cool! :icon-twisted:

But the defender is the most uncomfortable vehicle I have ever driven! :thumbdown:

If you dont tear your top/trousers on the door catch getting in. You then close the door and realise that the drivers seat is far too close to the outside of the vehicle to ever be comfortable! So your wedged in pressed hard against the door. Then you start driving and soon your calf muscle is aching badly from the ridiculously heavy clutch peddle and if it starts raining you will inevitably get a wet foot as water pisses in from some where. :angry-screaming:

And there just the faults I can think of off the top of my head from having to move my old managers 110 in and out of the workshop at Piranha.

Both my old boss in the UK and my manager at Piranha were devotees of the landrover brand and in particular the defender. They both spent a fortune maintaining their vehicles, money was irrelevant. Whatever the vehicles needed they got and both were maintained at highly respected landrover specialists. Both vehicles suffered from constant mechanical and electrical failures and were forever breaking down! :icon-rolleyes:

I think a lot of landrover owners just accept and think that thats just what landrovers/4wd's are like! :think:

Finally................

Hats off to the landrover marketing department for convincing most of the UK that landrovers are the ultimate and "best 4x4 x far"! :clap:

What a joke! :lol:
 
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If Land Rover was made in Japan, (or the UK with Japanese management) they would have sorted the problems or someone would have committed suicide!

In fact, I wonder what will happen to all the tooling, though they are pretty much hand built I believe.
 
I wonder if it's because the British love an underdog? If the Land Rover buying public had deserted in their droves when the things broke down then Land Rover would have been forced to sort it out…or die. But folks still buy the things.

Imagine if Toyota bought the rights to producing the Deafener and sorted it?
 
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Whichever way you look at it the defender was a legend in its own right . I always wanted one until I actually got in one which was late in life because everyone I knew drove jap 4x4's , I got out of the LR understanding why .

I do wonder what a back to the drawing board plan might result in though , part of me does hope they will make it what the old defender was supposed to be because I for one can see a no contest decision when it comes to buying a new 4x4 if they get it right .
 
Originally, Land Rovers were 100% customer spec, and because it was designed like a mechano set, the guy in order control could call up a build to suit the customer's requirements. You can imagine what a tedious job that was, with 20-30,000 individual parts making up a vehicle.

Then, to improve efficiency, they block-coded parts bundles, specific to particular types of base vehicles, truck-cab, chassis-cab, hard-top, station-wagon and the like.

Armies around the world were the main customers, so specific builds were developed for the British Army, Dutch Army, Danish, French, Israeli, Iraq, and so on, you can't imagine the hundreds of countries on the list, and they would be ordering in blocks of hundreds.

Generally, development of the product was customer led, such as the 101 forward control, and the 88 1/2 tonner.

However, the basic mechano set components themselves didn't change much at all, so Ben's real complaint about B pillar dents in your right shoulder never got addressed. I think some proper market research in the 50s would have sorted out problems like this, but in those days, as a customer, you bought what was on offer, or you went somewhere else.

There were no computers then and data such as market research was very difficult to process with some certainty. Everything to do with a build was manual and build cards were physical paper bundles that followed each truck down the line. By this method, all varieties of the vehicle would run down the same line, picking up the parts specific to its build card as it went.

Truly, it was an amazing place to be, seeing all those vehicles coming together. Sadly, LR didn't move fast enough to embrace the computer age as it developed IMO. They did have microfiche, but it was developed late and was not digitized as and when digital systems started to be developed. At that time, the unions had taken hold and the as the wage bill spiraled, there was little money in the pot to invest in expensive computer control systems. This is all JMO of course, but I think it sealed the fate of the British car manufacturing industry generally.

Why this didn't change after the sell-off, I will never know. It was an ideal opportunity to fix all the bugs and to develop the product into something reliable, versatile and relevant in today's market.

We all know Land Cruisers are good, but why is this? Toyota have always embraced the trends, but it's not always been the best route to take IMO. They still have to demonstrate that going electronic is a wise move. It may be ok for urban use the all singing and dancing SUV, but as a rugged reliable outback vehicle, most would now be turning to the 70 series, which IMO is sad.

I've nothing against the 70 of course, but when the only way to secure reliability is to step back in time, there must be something wrong with the direction Toyota are going with the Land Cruiser, and their utility truck range.

Maybe the writing will be on the wall for Toyota, if they don't get their act together.



 
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http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jan/29/last-land-rover-defender-rolls-off-production-line

I might go as far to say that it is the reason why Landcruisers exist in the first place.

I'm not so sure about that. The first Toyota 4x4 was produced in 1942 for the Japanese military and was basically a copy of an old jeep design although not that many were made. The outcome of the war obviously slowed things up for Toyota somewhat although limited production continued in 1945 under US military supervision. The later production BJ/FJ series from 1951 is a completely different vehicle however and arguably better than the LR from day 1 some might say :eusa-whistle:. The Japanese philosophy of continuous development and improvement made the LC what it is today. Exactly the same happened in the bike industry. The first Japanese bikes were copies but were improved and developed continually whereas many British manufacturers just rested on their laurels and turned out the same old outdated machinery that owners got fed up with when they could have something faster, leak free and more reliable for less money. JMO
 
Very interesting Clive. By catering to the customers needs it means the customer has a hand in the design, which without careful filtering can end in the thing being effectively designed by a committee. Rarely good.

However, I do agree it's been a legend, iconic even. It just needed some cleaver tweaks and redesigns to improve things. Without it there's going to be a huge gap in the market for an agricultural vehicle.

The death nell was really Iraq and Afghanistan or more precisely the IED. Alas there needed to be a completely new vehicle to cope with the new style of warfare. With the British army no longer a customer, the writing was on the wall.

It just goes to show, something doesn't need to be perfect to be loved.
 
I'm not so sure that there's any evidence that Toyotas were any better than Land Rovers from day 1, but it is clear that from day 2 (so to speak) Toyota have managed the business and development of the product in a better way.

This either due to better management, or by chance, I tend to favor the former.

For sure they both experienced similar hard times, WWII, and economic crashes. But I know for a fact that the Labour market influenced by the strong unions in the 70s, bled the British car manufacturing industry dry, leaving little for R&D.

That's why we were stuck with the junk of the day in those times, Austin 1800s and the Princess, I ask you, when BMW were producing far superior products with the same available technology.
 
Very interesting Clive. By catering to the customers needs it means the customer has a hand in the design, which without careful filtering can end in the thing being effectively designed by a committee. Rarely good.

However, I do agree it's been a legend, iconic even. It just needed some cleaver tweaks and redesigns to improve things. Without it there's going to be a huge gap in the market for an agricultural vehicle.

The death nell was really Iraq and Afghanistan or more precisely the IED. Alas there needed to be a completely new vehicle to cope with the new style of warfare. With the British army no longer a customer, the writing was on the wall.

It just goes to show, something doesn't need to be perfect to be loved.


Huge gap? I doubt it personally. It will be missed by some I agree, as is anything when production of it is ceased. Don't know any numbers but I'm guessing the sales of the modern 4x4 pickup/utility truck to the farming fraternity has long since passed that of the Defender. I'd also wager that the sale of Defenders to the general public far outweighed the numbers the army required so the loss of the MOD contract may not be as significant as you imagine. JMO
 
I agree Clive, when you look at other countries that don't have the unions that we had/have and how they have thrived. You don't hear of Fiat workers coming out on strike, or even Peugeot or Renault (though this may be hidden within a whole country strike perhaps?). The whole them and us culture has to be damaging to the core resulting in poor product. Add to that the likelihood of the company being held to ransom for long periods of time must have been very crippling indeed.
Having said that, British engineering still has an excellent reputation even with the Germans.
 
Ironic how it all evolved from the the original American jeep and if i recall correctly that jeep was designed specifically as a disposable vehicle with a front line life expectancy of less than a day .

I believe Toyota only continue with the 70 series because it is needed in the mines , look at that ambulance recently introduced to the forum virtually brand new and in a sorry state , mrT knows that's the toughest they produce and which country owns the majority of the worlds mineral mines ?
 
The death nell was really Iraq and Afghanistan or more precisely the IED. Alas there needed to be a completely new vehicle to cope with the new style of warfare. With the British army no longer a customer, the writing was on the wall.

I read a story somewhere about a girl who was a driver for some press people in a war zone and her vehicle had an RPG explode underneath which blew her off the road into a ditch, after coming to a halt she realised the engine was still running and she managed to drive out and then got the hell out of there.

On returning to the depot the vehicle was examined . . . . and nothing much more than scorch marks were found.

I don't have to tell you what 4x4 she was driving do I? of course it was a Land Cruiser. :dance:
 
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Like the 100 LC that Jon Simpson escaped in after a bomb had nearly hit it and killed his camera man. All the glass was gone and the whole car was bent like a banana but they drove off in it.
 
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