The new Chinese "Landwind" 4x4

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Folks
As you may know I do a certain amount of car crash analysis, and a colleague in the USA has just circulated the results of NCAP (New Car Assessment Program) testing on the Chinese Landwind, which is currently on sale in Holland for around =A310k, and apparently coming to the UK soon.
The official results are not out yet, but it has supposely made history by scoring no stars at all with the driver dead in the benchmark 40mph offset deformable crash shown below.
I've put the images and movie files on a web server, see:
Base vehicle http://www.tpc.nildram.co.uk/orig.jpg
Movie #1: http://www.tpc.nildram.co.uk/run1.wmv (1.4MB)
Movie #2: http://www.tpc.nildram.co.uk/run2.wmv (1.9MB)
Afterwards: http://www.tpc.nildram.co.uk/crash.jpg
For those interested in such things the driver was probably "killed" by the steering wheel getting him in the neck (I don't have the details), and the distortion of the dash and passenger space is totally unacceptable in a modern vehicle.
For comparison if you were in a vehicle scoring 5 stars in this test you would be able to open the driver's door and, probably, be OK enough to climb out of it.
If you want to read more type "landwind + NCAP" into Google.
Christopher Bell
Devon, UK
1996 1HD-FT
 
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Hi Christopher,
Interesting/scary stuff.
Out of interest is it possible to get data like that on 80 series or
other TLC models?
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
 
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Hi Christopher,
Interesting/scary stuff.
Out of interest is it possible to get data like that on 80 series or
other TLC models?
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
 
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Guest

Guest
Hey Christopher
I reakon this is one time when even an air bag is usless when you have no
head to save. If that was a real person would thay have held onto their
head, or would it be rolling around the back seat.
Is there any where a test on a landcruiser 80.
So what is the problem with it, is it the lack of cabin strenght.
John C
92HDJ 80 1HDT Ireland
 
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On 10/12/05, Christopher Bell <[Email address removed]> wrote:
y scoring no stars at all with the driver dead in the benchmark 40mph offset deformable crash shown below.
Clearly designed with one specific market in mind.
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Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
 
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Julian
The trouble is that N in NCAP stands for "New", and the 80 series is - sniff - no longer "new" in the markets which test these things. "NCAP + landcruiser" in Google turns up mostly 100 series tests.
I've found some limited Ozzie crash test data on the 80 series: see http://www.aaa.asn.au/NCAP/ozindex.htm. See also http://www1.tpgi.com.au/users/mpaine/ncaplist.html.
The 80 scored 2 stars :(, but the model they tested didn't have any airbags; the 1998 100 series with two airbags got 4 stars and did pretty well (see http://www.aaa.asn.au/NCAP/PDF Docs/LDCR98.pdf). This must be similar to the US and NCAP tests, but I don't know how it differs in detail. Incidentally the Nissan Patrol of the early to mid 90s vintage got 1 star.
All 4x4 vehicles find these tests hard since their mass tends to murder the deformable barrier, ie the impact gets stiffer faster, and the older ladder chassis vehicles tended to "hinge" downwards under the firewall causing distortion of the front passenger space and more steering wheel backwards movement.
I don't know how valid it is to "reverse extrapolate" the 100 series tests back to an 80 with airbags, since although the basic chassis is the same it is often small changes in the detailed design that make a big difference, especially in the steering column articulation & mounting areas. However if you look at the overall body and chassis performance of the 100 series in the pdf file above you'll see it does pretty well, and if the 80 series they tested had been equipped with airbags I suspect it would have got 3 or even 4 stars - but that's guesswork.
Remember also that the NCAP tests are, in my view, set up to obscure the fact that in automotive David vs Goliath crashes David always loses. In reality if you hit an "ordinary" car with 2.3 tons of LC you will almost certainly survive but they, who are your crumple zone, may well not. I think we are all well aware of this and drive accordingly.
On a less gloomy note I've managed to order some colour laser transparency film, so if you - or anyone else - can think of a logo I'm happy to print some off & post them to you before Nov 20th.
The cost will work out at about 60p / A4 sheet, so 30p / sticker assuming two on a sheet. It's more fiddle than it's worth to collect lots of little sums, so I'm happy to bear the cost and ask takers to make a suitable donation to a charity of their choice. (Political parties not included.)
CB

|
| Hi Christopher,
|
| Interesting/scary stuff.
|
| Out of interest is it possible to get data like that on 80 series or
| other TLC models?
|
 
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John
True. "Steering column intrusion" was the major killer in early cars, crushing the chest and causing massive head injuries. That's why airbags were initially driver's side only, and their main job was to stop the driver's head & chest hitting the wheel.
Would this bloke have been decapitated? I don't know. The problem is that those crash dummies are expensive (as in up to $1m a throw) so they are a LOT stronger than real people because they have to be re-used, and it is the instrumentation inside them that assesses the damage.
See my earlier post about 80 series tests - in my view you needn't lose any sleep, especially if you have a driver's side airbag.
CB
| Hey Christopher
| I reakon this is one time when even an air bag is usless when
| you have no
| head to save. If that was a real person would thay have held
| onto their
| head, or would it be rolling around the back seat.
| Is there any where a test on a landcruiser 80.
| So what is the problem with it, is it the lack of cabin strenght.
| John C
 
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Hi Christopher,
Thanks for all the test data and comments, I'll plough through it
later.
Excellent - any thoughts on how they will fix to the window?
If you send them to me I can 'sell' them on at Salisbury and then send
you one payment.
I'll think about a design. I already have a sort of 'logo' on the site
and assume that we would want the website/list address on it and
perhaps some sort of slogan like 'bigger IS better' or 'Official LR tow
vehicle' - any contributions in that area would be welcome.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Christopher,
Thanks for all the test data and comments, I'll plough through it
later.
Excellent - any thoughts on how they will fix to the window?
If you send them to me I can 'sell' them on at Salisbury and then send
you one payment.
I'll think about a design. I already have a sort of 'logo' on the site
and assume that we would want the website/list address on it and
perhaps some sort of slogan like 'bigger IS better' or 'Official LR tow
vehicle' - any contributions in that area would be welcome.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
 
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Guest

Guest
Hey Christopher
Mine has no air bags except for my belly, would that be any good.
John C
92HDJ 80 1HDT ireland
 
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Guinness has lots of bubbles doesn't it?
CB
|
| Hey Christopher
| Mine has no air bags except for my belly, would that be any good.
| John C
| 92HDJ 80 1HDT ireland
 
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Guest

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On 10/12/05, Christopher Bell <[Email address removed]> wrote:
throw) so they are a LOT stronger than real people because they have to be re-used, and it is the instrumentation inside them that assesses the damage.
That's an interesting observation! Just wondering if NCAP is eying
real people to volunteer for an act in Dirty Sanches? That would give
them five seconds of fame and cost a fraction of the price :)
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
 
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Roman
I had to give a talk on this 10 days ago, and I got asked pretty much the same question.
People have volunteered for strange things. There was the US colonel who did sled tests to see what deceleration the human body could stand, and as I recall he was blind for a few days after -11g. And there was the time when the Top Gear presenters each drove into a loose wall at 30mph, and I remember when they paid a stunt driver to replicate a 30mph "drive into the side" impact in some sort of Renault that had scored 5 NCAP stars - and he walked away from it unhurt.
The crash dummies have properties based on "cadaver studies", which is a polite way of saying that a US University tested (dead) human bodies to destruction in the 1950s and measured their properties. Dead bodies *were* occasionally used in early crash tests, but there were all sorts of practical problems (use your imagination) and it was difficult to extract quantitative info - for example "OK, we broke his arm, but by how much?"
To this day the child dummies are based on calculated, extrapolated and guessed properties since noone would even consider asking for a newly dead baby or child to test.
Me, I'll stick to finite element analysis on my computer. Bloodless and boring, but I only hurt electrons.
CB
|
| > The problem is that those crash dummies are expensive (as
| in up to $1m a throw) so they are a LOT stronger than real
| people because they have to be re-used, and it is the
| instrumentation inside them that assesses the damage.
|
| That's an interesting observation! Just wondering if NCAP is eying
| real people to volunteer for an act in Dirty Sanches? That would give
| them five seconds of fame and cost a fraction of the price :)
|
| --
| Rgds,
| Roman (London, UK)
 
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