The people have spoken

[moggy1968]

EU will not renegotiate and parliament will not leave with no deal so there will be a second referendum. Good idea too as now people see the disadvantages of leaving the majority want to stay.

Someone who is a rampant remainer started a poll on Facebook about that, obviously expecting the majority to now say remain. After several thousand voted, leave was ahead by a significant margin

 

[Chris]

Well I'm glad I'm not the only one who doesn't have an answer Bob. I get kinda vexed as the media just don't seem to be really asking (or answering these questions.) What ever will they do when it's all over? They'll all get awards of course.

I had myself down as being a bit thick to be honest. I have questions and I just can't see answers. I'd like to see a flow chart on this. It'd be simple to construct, but when it comes to pencilling in the actual solutions, I think there'd be some blanks. Forget the arguments for and against and who's to blame yadda yadda, I just want to see the potential eventualities mapped out. Currently, leave on the 31st with no agreed deal is the only one that I can see as being pinned to the board. Sure, leave on the 31st WITH a deal would be another possibility, but how? Don't leave at all is another option that you could map but again how would that happen without something cataclysmic? Then I suppose there is delay again, but the PM says absolutely not, but can that still happen despite his words?

Where is the map?

Leave with a deal
Leave with no deal
Don't leave
Don't leave quite yet
Leave and come back???

 

[moggy1968]

 

[Chris]

Technically I think that's an ape not a monkey ...

 

[Shayne]

I'm confused as to why anyone might assume the media may build a map . Trump is without any shadow of a doubt America's most popular president since , well i don't know decades . And the media has people ashamed to admit that they will vote for him again , but they will because its human nature to rally against those who hold us in contempt .

 

[frank rabbets]

If everyone goes to the pub we stay in. The 31st is a best target I think. Boris said we could possibly leave earlier. Perhaps if UK is so brilliant we could all F off and go live together on the moon.

 

[Rob Cowell]

I'm confused as to why anyone might assume the media may build a map . Trump is without any shadow of a doubt America's most popular president since , well i don't know decades . And the media has people ashamed to admit that they will vote for him again , but they will because its human nature to rally against those who hold us in contempt .

Assume you're not using wishy-washy measures like votes to derive that position? But if you are he's the most popular president since the last one. You'd have to go back to Clinton in 92 to find a president elected with a lower share, but that was when it was a 2.5 horse race with Ross Perot taking a significant chunk. I don't think there's ever been a president elected with a lower share of votes when there were only two viable candidates.

 

[Shayne]

My point being Rob he has been vilified so profusely by the press that people are ashamed to admit they vote for him , but they very obviously do . What im offering is nothing more than a passing observation that the propoganda machine is not only broken but actually working against itself .

 

[Chas]

I was hoping Boris's bluster was an act and he would change once he got into power sadly that doesn't seem to be happening. I don't think he will last.

 

[steverjuk]

I don't hope he will last, we entire system needs to change, the very idea of a career politician drives me insane.

 

[Shayne]

Winston Churchill - 1940

Winston Churchill led an extraordinary life, but perhaps the most remarkable element in his life was how he became prime minister in 1940. Just a few years earlier he was widely seen as politically isolated and was widely ridiculed for his views. In 1940, he was appointed his nation’s Prime Minister at its darkest hours and became the leader of the fight against Germany. [1] Churchill’s political fortunes changed because of his unstinting opposition to Germany and the realization by Parliament that his leadership was what Britain needed in its most desperate hour.

 

[moggy1968]

View attachment 157581
Winston Churchill - 1940

Winston Churchill led an extraordinary life, but perhaps the most remarkable element in his life was how he became prime minister in 1940. Just a few years earlier he was widely seen as politically isolated and was widely ridiculed for his views. In 1940, he was appointed his nation’s Prime Minister at its darkest hours and became the leader of the fight against Germany. [1] Churchill’s political fortunes changed because of his unstinting opposition to Germany and the realization by Parliament that his leadership was what Britain needed in its most desperate hour.

Just what I was about to mention. He was vilified as a washed up drunken incompetent has been.
Whether the very real concerns about Boris turn out to be true or not only time will tell.

The trouble is, when offered a choice between a dogshit sandwich or a cowshit omelette neither option is going to be particularly palatable.

As I have said all along, I see no one in the corridors of power capable of taking us through this shit storm to any kind of decent conclusion.

 

[Shayne]

The way i see it there has to be a beginning before anyone can move ahead and there can be no new beginning without an end . The conclusion doesn't exist and never will , once we are out business as usual will provide solutions to the most pressing problems because money doesnt give a damn about idealogy .

Nobody now would recognize Churchill's name were it not for war but it was a populist movement that placed him in the history books and the people who put him in power . He was removed swiftly when the time come for a new beginning .

History rather than todays media will judge Boris and he knows it , how can that be a bad thing .

 

[Rob Cowell]

Let’s hope it’s a more accurate history than imagining the people putting Churchill in power. OK they did in the 50s but I don’t think that’s what you meant.

 

[Shayne]

Throughout the 30's Churchill was a lone voice warning about the threat coming out of Germany and his contempt for Britain and France's "cowardly" policy of appeasement was well known and shared by the common man . As his predictions came true to ignore him was to ignore the masses , the elite rolled over and gave the dumb racist uneducated backward looking far right masses what they wanted .

And later probably congratulated themselves on having the superior intelligence to do so .

 

[frank rabbets]

Headline:- " Big Trade Deal With USA". Oh yeah. 3 years of negotiations at least that might lead nowhere.

 

[goodoldboy]

Just as I thought this couldn't get any worse Boris Johnson becomes P.M.so much for parliamentary sovereignty.A Trump light , another lying , delusional spiv .
Brexit is about nothing more than the xenophobic , hateful paranoia of a section of the ruling class who hark back to a time when nothing stood in the way of their power & privilege.The fact that so many ordinary folks have fallen for this speaks volumes about how any notion of society or sympathy for those less fortunate than ourselves has been systematically undermined in the last 40 years.

 

[moggy1968]

Just as I thought this couldn't get any worse Boris Johnson becomes P.M.so much for parliamentary sovereignty.A Trump light , another lying , delusional spiv .
Brexit is about nothing more than the xenophobic , hateful paranoia of a section of the ruling class who hark back to a time when nothing stood in the way of their power & privilege.The fact that so many ordinary folks have fallen for this speaks volumes about how any notion of society or sympathy for those less fortunate than ourselves has been systematically undermined in the last 40 years.

As previously discussed, rather oversimplifying peoples reasons for making a particular decision in a particularly offensive and bigoted manner.

What you have done again is perfectly demonstrate the arrogant, narrow minded, judgemental, dismissive,patronising, bigoted, ill informed, ignorant and stupid side of remain.
I thought we left that behind on this thread sometime ago.
Congratulations
What it must be to be so superior to the rest of the population

 

[hopeless wanderer]

I haven't read all the comments but i'll get round to it later.
The way funds are allotted back to the UK mean that money is directed to the poorest areas of the UK, The North East, South Wales etc. These are areas that have been neglected by Westminster for decades and when Westminster allocates spending barely anything escapes outside the M25.
Looking at it economically we have lost our AAA credit rating, we've dropped 2 places in the global economic rankings and the pound is just off it's lowest against the US dollar than in the last 35 years.
Will we leave ? I'm not sure. If we do and it's because Boris suspends parliament so we crash out it'll be catastrophic. Will we rejoin ? Probably but we will probably not get the rebates etc we receive now.

 

[Shayne]

3 years on and i'm still waiting for a heartwarming positive message about the benefits of EU membership delivered by a person with the common touch .

In this divorce the adultress , abusive , vindictive wife doesn't want to divorce her ever suffering gravy train husband and she has it all sewn up with her lawyers and her counter claims . In her blind arrogance she cannot see that project fear prompts rage rather than fear .

Hubby's compromise is not to bulldoze the house with her in it because the consequences of that will be global , but hey if she insists .

We are not out of the EU yet hopeless wanderer , for 3 years we have been trapped leaderless in a farcical situation that would undoubtedly have made any other member state capitulate , we are dealing with the worst right now , even without brexit global growth is shrinking , Germany fears recession , but the UK plods on despite being forbidden the agility that made it a global power in the first place . Britain is not the insignificant isolated little island remainers would have us believe .

If we replace EU goods with American do you think those we abandoned will respond by reducing production and staff to offset the loss , will they hell instead they will start working furiously to offer a cost effective alternative to us buying elsewhere .