Tow Ropes

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Guest

Guest
I have always taken the agricultural approach to tow ropes, just using
what ever lengths of rope that comes to hand, but I now want to start
to build up some sensible recovery kit.
What is the best sort of tow rope to go for general towing of vehicles
out of mud, towing on road and pulling the occasional tree stump?
I suppose the choices are:
Tow Straps
Heavy duty tow rope
Kinetic tow rope.
Any recommendations would be appreciated.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift, ARB
 
G

Guest

Guest
Julian
All I can say in adding to this is the kinetic ones can be quite
expensive, and once used, its not safe to use them again because the
kinetic energy has been used up...I know it sounds silly.
We had one of these in 2001 in the Grand Erg Oriental in Algeria, it
was only used as a major last resort, and once only.
I would say though, that its a very handy rope to have around, but I'd
support the idea that the best rope is the strongest one you can get,
don't know about lengths, perhaps up to 12-15 metres or so? It would
have to be one that could withstand the pulling of about 5 tonnes in
weight I guess. The other one I have as 'stock' is is a thickesh (0.5
cm wide) steel cable one, encased in soft vinyl - this can be used for
other things too, if required, but it is quite heavy and is a devil to
store! i.e. it won't do as you tell it, and will keep unraveling - it
can be bent but this is not recommended so I store it around one of
those heavy duty cable winds? the ones that gardeners use for their
water hoses. The other problem with this is because it is stored
circularly, it isn't the best user of space in a loaded cruiser.
I carry one of each. I still have to replace the 'usual tow rope' the
synthetic fibre one, I think its nylon or something plasticky like this.
The usual one is about 10mm wide. I never had chance to try this one
out 'cos the people I was travelling with wanted some rope for their
camels....so I gave them this. Apparently these ropes are able to b e
used, but I never did get chance to try it out.
Renate
>>> [Email address removed] 01/07/05 11:52am >>>
I have always taken the agricultural approach to tow ropes, just using
what ever lengths of rope that comes to hand, but I now want to start
to build up some sensible recovery kit.
What is the best sort of tow rope to go for general towing of vehicles
out of mud, towing on road and pulling the occasional tree stump?
I suppose the choices are:
Tow Straps
Heavy duty tow rope
Kinetic tow rope.
Any recommendations would be appreciated.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift, ARB
 
G

Guest

Guest
Kinetic tow rope, 3 metre strap, and some shackles is the 'basic'
recovery kit IMHO.
I definitely wouldn't use the Kinetic for tree stumps though :)
Jon.
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]]
On Behalf Of Julian Voelcker
Sent: 07 January 2005 11:52
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: [ELCO] Tow Ropes
I have always taken the agricultural approach to tow ropes, just using
what ever lengths of rope that comes to hand, but I now want to start
to build up some sensible recovery kit.
What is the best sort of tow rope to go for general towing of vehicles
out of mud, towing on road and pulling the occasional tree stump?
I suppose the choices are:
Tow Straps
Heavy duty tow rope
Kinetic tow rope.
Any recommendations would be appreciated.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift, ARB
 
G

Guest

Guest
Julian
In my (limited) experience there are three totally different situations:
(1) Towing on the road requires a shortish (I think 3m is the max length permitted by law) rope with a breaking load of around 2 tons, and shackles at each end. You want it to break if things go pear-shaped, and the shackles make fixing / unfixing easy, especially as a lot of modern cars have a screw-in tow eye with quite a small diameter hole.
I've seen some "spring loaded" ropes for this which are normally contracted, but which have a lot of give so that they stretch under snatch load rather then jerking everyone. I imagine they make pulling an inexperienced towee easier as you don't have to worry so much about letting the rope go slack.
(2) Pulling out tree stumps you don't want a rope at all, but rather a chain, because the latter has no flexibility. I use an old tractor chain that I found on this farm, and it beats ropes hands down for this sort of thing. It's also far safer: you don't build up any tension in a chain, so if things slip or suddenly come free it just goes "flop" on the ground (instead of whizzing through your back window).
But they are heavy and get filthy with mud and rust, so you wouldn't want to carry one around all the time.
(3) Off-road recovery: I haven't a clue - but I'm sure there are lots of people on this list who do!
Personally I keep a 60' length of 1/2" diameter nylon rope in the truck (just like you). Single strand for towing cars, multiple strands for lorries; and it's also dead useful for tying things down on trailers, swinging from trees, trussing up captives, etc. But it would be inadequate for serious off-road recovery.
Christopher Bell
Devon, UK
1996 1HD-FT
 
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G

Guest

Guest
Hi Jon,
Where would you go to get it, RufTracks?
I assume the strap can double up as a 'tree saver'.
What else would you recommend to go with a winch I might be getting
soon? :)
yes, that could be 'interesting'!
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift, ARB
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Christopher,
Actually for road towing I would be tempted to get one of those fixed tow bars they are getting a lot cheaper now.
That's the agricultural approach that I have used in the past, although have a winch in the pipe line so might aim for the slow pull rather than the sharp tug approach!
Correct!
I think that I will follow Jon's advice for the time being.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift, ARB
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hello all,
Happy New Year.
On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 11:52:02 GMT, Julian Voelcker
<[Email address removed]> wrote:
Julian, you have mentioned it somewhere already. It's called OP rope! :)
Not a great difference really, as long as the rope/strap is rated for
the job. It's more about storage and handling convenience.
I'd advise caution as the forces involved in kinetic rope recovery can
be quite intimidating. I wouldn't use it without making absolutely
sure the other guy's recovery point is up to the job - I hate ducking
low flying shackles ;-)
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
 
G

Guest

Guest
Julian,
1. Kinetic tow ropes are great if you're stuck on the crest of a sand dune,
so I doubt you'll use it in England.
2. I got my tow ropes / recovery gear from www.brownchurch.co.uk in Leyton,
NE London. The purple one was superb when we were stuck in Moroccan mud, and
Mauritanian sands. They also do very effective cheap sand ladders - great
for grip during recovery.
3. Maybe Colin MacRae should've had a few lessons in vehicle recovery ;-)
--
Rgds,
Dennis - London
'96 1HD-FT
'91 1HD-T
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Guest
1) Kinetic recovery rope with bow shackles ( min 3 tonne rating each) at each end. Best also to use a "bridle" at each end so if one of the attacment points gives under load the bridle restrains the rope / shackle / tow ball assy. I saw a non bridled one fly off a RR when the tow point gave - it could have killed someone.
2] For towing on the road you can use a rope but the problems of snatching and deceleration lead to rope failure. I prefer a spring loaded "solid" tow pole - same as the AA / RAC use. Yes they cost more but they are more secure. You can get one by Draper I think for about =A325.
3) I also use a "choke chain". With a large ring at one end and a hook at the other. The hook being shaped to accept and hold the links of the chain without slippage so one can shorten the chain as required. Good for many applications not just stump removal - great for fence straining !!
4] I have a 12 tonne rated 5m long 50 mm wide nylon strop which can be used for many things including wrapping around trees to prevent damage.
5] Don't forget - a snatch block - spare bow shackles - a plywood base at least 50 mm thick 300 mm square to sit the jack on to prevent everything sinking in when jacking on soft ground.
6] All this is kept in a big metal chest behind the back seat. The chest is attached to the rear seat brackets to prevent theft and stop it moving if I was involved in a crash. I don't want my death certificate to read - survived crash - killed by tool box !!!
7] Ratchet straps and webbing can be used for lots of things - get a pair of 5T by 5m long.
8] Suppliers - far cheaper to go to a local lifting company - isn't there one called Gloucester lifting ? Plenty on Ebay also.
9) Having been caught out by finding a rope or chain is just a bit short - I now buy longer lengths and work on the principle that if it is too long you can always "double up" to take up the slack.
Sorry to rabbit on a bit but the above was found as a result of some hard lessons - some of them mine !!
Cheers Gareth Jones.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi all,
My 2p's worth:
Kinetic ropes - they do deteriorate with time, but definitely not
after first use. Should be kept away from sunlight as nylon is
sensitive to UV radiation.
You don''t use a steel rope or chain for recovery because they have no
capacity to absorb even the slightes impact.
Kinetic ropes are used primarily to recover cars stuck deep in mud -
you need a lot of force to overcome suction holding the chassis down
in mud.
This is all the information you may ever need about recovery tools & techniques:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Recovery/
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi all
This is useful information too, as I never did get around to using the
steel cable either....
Kinetic rope was German and was expensive, so I'm looking for good
alternatives, also.
Renate
>>> [Email address removed] 01/07/05 01:31pm >>>
Hi all,
My 2p's worth:
Kinetic ropes - they do deteriorate with time, but definitely not
after first use. Should be kept away from sunlight as nylon is
sensitive to UV radiation.
You don''t use a steel rope or chain for recovery because they have no
capacity to absorb even the slightes impact.
Kinetic ropes are used primarily to recover cars stuck deep in mud -
you need a lot of force to overcome suction holding the chassis down
in mud.
This is all the information you may ever need about recovery tools &
techniques:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Recovery/
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
 
G

Guest

Guest
Gareth
As usual you are SO thorough! I'm going to have to come and see you again...
Renate
>>> [Email address removed] 01/07/05 01:20pm >>>
1) Kinetic recovery rope with bow shackles ( min 3 tonne rating each) at each end. Best also to use a "bridle" at each end so if one of the attacment points gives under load the bridle restrains the rope / shackle / tow ball assy. I saw a non bridled one fly off a RR when the tow point gave - it could have killed someone.
2] For towing on the road you can use a rope but the problems of snatching and deceleration lead to rope failure. I prefer a spring loaded "solid" tow pole - same as the AA / RAC use. Yes they cost more but they are more secure. You can get one by Draper I think for about =A325.
3) I also use a "choke chain". With a large ring at one end and a hook at the other. The hook being shaped to accept and hold the links of the chain without slippage so one can shorten the chain as required. Good for many applications not just stump removal - great for fence straining !!
4] I have a 12 tonne rated 5m long 50 mm wide nylon strop which can be used for many things including wrapping around trees to prevent damage.
5] Don't forget - a snatch block - spare bow shackles - a plywood base at least 50 mm thick 300 mm square to sit the jack on to prevent everything sinking in when jacking on soft ground.
6] All this is kept in a big metal chest behind the back seat. The chest is attached to the rear seat brackets to prevent theft and stop it moving if I was involved in a crash. I don't want my death certificate to read - survived crash - killed by tool box !!!
7] Ratchet straps and webbing can be used for lots of things - get a pair of 5T by 5m long.
8] Suppliers - far cheaper to go to a local lifting company - isn't there one called Gloucester lifting ? Plenty on Ebay also.
9) Having been caught out by finding a rope or chain is just a bit short - I now buy longer lengths and work on the principle that if it is too long you can always "double up" to take up the slack.
Sorry to rabbit on a bit but the above was found as a result of some hard lessons - some of them mine !!
Cheers Gareth Jones.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Renate - you're always welcome to call in - give me a couple of days
notice - and I'll bake a cake - non of this shop stuff at our house
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gareth.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Gareth
No shop talk? Yeah, right!
Actually, I might end up picking your lordships brains.... - and no,
I'm not worried (unduly), just more philosophical...well, you know how
it is!
Hows the truck coming on?
You know what really gripes me (about your very good self) is the fact
that YOU can work on your beast, even when it rains! its not fair! I'm
SO envious! AND it doesn't cost YOU the earth!
All I can say is "well, I'll just have to make sure I ply you with your
favourite tipple (whatever this is)....and co-erce your good self...
Actually, its my birthday on the 11th Jan...
Renate
>>> [Email address removed] 01/07/05 02:19pm >>>
Renate - you're always welcome to call in - give me a couple of days
notice - and I'll bake a cake - non of this shop stuff at our house
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gareth.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Renate - shop talk is fine - it's shop bought cake that I was on about
!! Victoria sponges are always best eaten the day they are made - and
yes we have homemade jam - plum / damson / greengage / raspberry /
blackcurrant. Sorry we are out of strawberry. Good to hear you in
happier frame of mind.
Bye - Gareth.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Julian,
I think that you have basically said it.
I use 2 tow straps for recovery of my 80 to connect via D shackles to the
front recovery eyes to make a shallow V to spread the load. I have a NATO
Hitch at the rear partly for recovery of self for others and towing military
trailers. I understand that the maximum length of a tow rope on UK highways
is 4.5 meters.
On the road I would use the above but I also have a collapsible recovery
pole from Clarks Tools which normally sits in a hatch back but I will buy
another one for the 80. The advantages of the pole for normal towing are,
no shunting by the towed vehicle due to lack of breaks if the servo is not
working on a car with a dead engine little chance of the towed vehicle
ramming the front tow car, much more confidence inspiring if Towing for any
great distance especially for the inexperienced. The front tow car can
break in confidence as it will also slow the towed car. By far the best tow
Bar I have use was made up for me and had NATO towing eyes at each end and
was use by me to tow other LR101 FC off road as they often have a NATO hitch
front and rear which is excellent for off road towing as a massive amount of
articulation as allowed for by the swiveling of the said hitches I wish more
vehicles were issued with them.
For serious off road recovery I use a Kinetic Energy Recovery Rope KERR
which I have used successfully for many years on many Towing vehicles,
various Landover's including 101 FC, Unimog G-Wagon, Alpine Tractor, and
Towed vehicles too many to list but all the above including 18 Ton Lorry.
When using this I always supervise the attachments of shackles especially to
the towed vehicle, I always explain what I am doing and the most obvious
dangers, and I explain what I expect from them in participating. I always
ask them never to over run my rope as I do not want it damaged and I have
left people who do not make an effort with the courtesy of this.
Usually no great efforts are required in its use, just toddle off very
gently taking up the slack no sudden lurch and out come the stuck vehicle.
I ask the towed vehicle to either keep a closed throttle in gear or to stay
in neutral covering the brakes if down hill. Occasionally if very stuck
then brute force is required and I will be far more aggressive but only to
vehicles with suitable attachments. I have witnessed a serious accident
with a KERR recovery rope when attached by inexperienced people who attached
the rope to a Range Rover bull bar, the towing vehicle raced off and pulled
the bull bar right off, a child was within the included angle of the rope
and was detained in hospital with serious injuries to his legs after the
rope whipped into him luckily the bull bar missed him as I am sure it would
have killed him. I must say that the people in question had nothing to do
with me and if I had of been on scene a moment earlier I most certainly
would have stopped them
,
For stumps I use a chain with self clasping hooks
It is a good idea to have a good section of shackles preferably rated.
Anthony Graham
1994 HSJ80 1HD - T
West Wales UK
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Julian Voelcker
Sent: 07 January 2005 11:52
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: [ELCO] Tow Ropes
I have always taken the agricultural approach to tow ropes, just using
what ever lengths of rope that comes to hand, but I now want to start
to build up some sensible recovery kit.
What is the best sort of tow rope to go for general towing of vehicles
out of mud, towing on road and pulling the occasional tree stump?
I suppose the choices are:
Tow Straps
Heavy duty tow rope
Kinetic tow rope.
Any recommendations would be appreciated.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift, ARB
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Renate,
I also have 2 x 100 meter lengths of winch cable but no winch and a broken
12 Ton recovery rope which parted this life to an other when snatching out
stumps with a Unimog.
Anthony Graham
1994 HDJ80 1HD - T
West Wales
UK
_____
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Renate Haupt
Sent: 07 January 2005 14:11
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: Re: [ELCO] Tow Ropes
Hi all
This is useful information too, as I never did get around to using the steel
cable either....
Kinetic rope was German and was expensive, so I'm looking for good
alternatives, also.
Renate
>>> [Email address removed] 01/07/05 01:31pm >>>
Hi all,
My 2p's worth:
Kinetic ropes - they do deteriorate with time, but definitely not
after first use. Should be kept away from sunlight as nylon is
sensitive to UV radiation.
You don''t use a steel rope or chain for recovery because they have no
capacity to absorb even the slightes impact.
Kinetic ropes are used primarily to recover cars stuck deep in mud -
you need a lot of force to overcome suction holding the chassis down
in mud.
This is all the information you may ever need about recovery tools &
techniques:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Recovery/
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
 
G

Guest

Guest
Guys
Something I need to get also - some decent 'D' shackles! and yes, I
forgot, the 'front recovery eyes' - isn't there a better name for
these?
sorry - I'm rambling
Well, it is a Friday and my job is mind stupefyingly boring in the
extreme.
Seriously, I was looking up info about the 'D' shackles, but I'm
undecided - anybody have a real idea about their strengths/weaknesses?
I'm thinking quite heavy ones, but having said that, I'm not prepared to
take a fully-loaded beast to North Africa again - a right hassle at
borders....so shouldn't need them to tow my OWN beast out of the sand,
more likely to tow a less unfortunate Nissan or something - the last one
I had the pleasure of meeting with was at least 20 or more years old -
hadn't been well-looked after so was pretty much falling apart at the
seams - cheap guides have even cheaper vehicles.
Seriously guys, I need to check out some specs on sizes and weight
specs - I checked with a 4x4 garage in the midlands, but I'm sure there
are loads of other places to look too.
Renate
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hello Renate,
Recovery points: I can't remember what 80 series are originally
equiped with but most likely with nothing more useful beyond lashing
points.
Having appropriate recovery points is more important than the rest of
the stuff. Shackles and straps can be borrowed, a recovery point can't
be improvised (so you end up with ropes attached to axles - don't
even consider using plastic bumpers or bullbars!)
It's best to buy certified shackles (4.75T will do) from any lifting
tackle supplier. They can also supply all the other recovery gear. As
a rule of thumb, 4.5 - 5 ton SWL is good enough.
As for general safety measures during recovery, perhaps it'd be a good
idea to have a meet one weekend for all interested club members to
have a demonstration by those who have done it and survived unscathed.
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 15:22:58 +0000, Renate Haupt
<[Email address removed]> wrote:
 
G

Guest

Guest
Thanks for all the feedback everyone.
I love just throwing the odd questions like this one out to you - a
great way to have some good content for when the archives are on line
:)
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift, ARB
 
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