DaanLC
New Member
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2017
- Messages
- 35
- Country Flag
TL;DR - Summary
I want to warn people to be very cautious with Ebay seller ‘smokeandpetfreehome.’ I have reason to believe he is, at worst, a scam artist; at best, he is untrustworthy as he lies, bullies and deceives.
I was the winning bidder on a Landcruiser 80 (now relisted). I had all intent to buy this vehicle, as the ad appeared genuine and the seller trustworthy. I could not get the vehicle checked prior to bidding due to it being Christmas. However, I had contacted the seller on Ebay before bidding, to ask about the advertised ‘Returns accepted.’ Via Ebay messaging, I had him confirm in writing that I could get the car checked and returned if required, if I ended up winning the auction.
Once I won, I paid a big deposit, arranged delivery and insurance. But I ended up pulling out of the deal once it became clear that his return policy was a lie and he was trying to prevent me from having the car checked before finalising the sale. Also, I had found in the meantime that the vehicle was not accurately described in the advert - it stated things it does not have.
It appears he normally sells Land Rovers. If you intend to bid on the now re-listed Landcruiser 80 I originally won, I suggest you read the story below for all the details. Also, there are threads elsewhere online of people complaining about this seller (which I only found after I was duped myself). It has become clear to me that he is a scammer, but if not, then at least an extremely disingenuous seller - the 100% rating is a red herring, on which more below as well.
He still owes me a large sum I paid in deposit. I intend to take him to small claims court to get the deposit back.
However I will admit that I made a classic mistake: I trusted a person that I did not know.
----- Full story follows below. It is VERY long but I felt I had to tell the whole thing. ------
Bidding on the car
I was the winning bidder on a Landcruiser 80 he had listed on Ebay. I had bid on the vehicle without having seen it, because I had noticed his auction offered ’Returns accepted within 14 days.’ I also was not physically able to view the vehicle as I was abroad to visit family (the auction ran through the Christmas period).
Before placing a bid, I had contacted him via Ebay messaging to ask whether in case of winning the auction, I could take the car for a check and if any big problems were found, have it returned to him within 14 days. He responded, in writing, ‘I'd accept a return, yes.’ This, in combination with his 100% Ebay rating and an auction that featured many pics and a video, prompted me to bid on and subsequently win the auction.
Context
I should pause here to give some context about myself. While I’ve been driving cars for a few years, including 4x4s off-road, I’ve never before purchased a car and generally know little to nothing about vehicles. I have a plan to go for a long overland trip by the end of 2018 so this is why I have been looking around at Landcruisers for a while now.
I had been looking at ads for Landcruisers for ages but never felt like I was getting any closer because of my aforementioned lack of knowledge. I never went to see a 2nd hand Landcruiser for sale as, first of all, I don’t own a vehicle so going across the country can be difficult or expensive to organise, and second - even if I would show up, I’d just be a tyre kicker due to my lack of knowledge.
When I saw the ad for the red cruiser that ‘smokeandpetfreehome’ had for sale, its video and its plethora of pictures strongly drew my (newbie) interest. When I saw ‘returns accepted’ I got seriously interested. And when he confirmed that he would take the car back after a check and something bad would be found, I became truly seriously tempted.
Then all that was left for me to do was to find reputable people to bring the car to for a check. That is what led me to find this forum. I found a couple of forum members (who I will not name just in case they feel uncomfortable with being associated with this story), who have been extremely generous in sharing information, knowledge and their time with me. They also offered to have the car delivered to one of them so that they could do a proper check.
Paying for the vehicle & arranging delivery
So, I had now won the auction and had found some trustworthy people to get the vehicle checked by. Then as per the auction rules, I contacted the seller to arrange a delivery date and pay a holding deposit. This is where I made my one true mistake.
The mistake was that I agreed to pay the deposit via Paypal using ‘friends and family’ as the payment option, in order to avoid Paypal fees. I should have never done that but did not realise at the time that you cannot raise a dispute for these kinds of payments with Paypal (which in hindsight of course makes sense).
We then proceeded to arrange a delivery date. We agreed to have it delivered to my home on a Friday. In the meantime I arranged with the forum guys to have the car checked on Saturday. I was still thinking, naively, that if we’d find anything major, I could just call the seller and make use of his 14 days return.
When it started to go wrong
Then on the Wednesday of the delivery week, so still three days before actual delivery, I changed my mind and decided I wanted to get the car delivered on Saturday instead, and do the check straight away before finalising the sale. I did not think this would be a bad idea because I still thought the seller was genuine in his intent. So I called him and explained what I wanted to do.
He did not take kindly to the idea, and immediately the first red flags came up. He told me over the phone that the return policy is ‘just something that Ebay puts on the auction.’ That is a lie.
I also reminded him that I had contacted him before bidding about getting it checked and maybe returned, which he denied. I thought he simply had forgotten so reminded him that it was all in our Ebay messaging history. He then deflected and changed the topic to Saturday likely not being possible because the car was in a secure compound, and he wasn’t sure if it could be accessed. He wanted to stick to the original delivery date.
I tried to reassure him that I wasn’t trying to weasel out of the deal. In fact I was in the middle of arranging a very expensive insurance policy for this car, which I finalised the day after. I told him that I fully expected that there would be some small things that would need attention, as it is an old vehicle. I just wanted total peace of mind to cover against anything very major, as per the agreement.
He simply said that he would ‘try’ to get it delivered on Saturday.
I waited throughout Thursday for any news, contacted him a few more times, which he ignored. Then on Friday he finally got back to me and basically told me that it wasn’t going to happen on Saturday and I would have to take receipt the car today. I could not get the car checked on Friday and I think he knew that, because I had told him as much. He did not want to discuss any alternative arrangements, and when I insisted I would not receive it that day, he hung up the phone. He then opened an Unpaid Item Case on Ebay.
Fallout
At this point it was clear to me that he really did not want to have the car checked, and that the whole return ‘policy’ was a bad joke. It now became apparent that he was trying to hide something about the vehicle. Also, with the help of more expert eyes on the ad, I had in the meantime become aware that there were several incorrect statements about the vehicle. It listed things it doesn’t have, simply put.
So the combination of the seller lying about his ‘return policy’, trying to force me to stick to an ‘original delivery date’ even though I had given him 3 days advance warning that I wanted that changed, him not showing an inkling of flexibility to arrange something alternative, and the ad itself having factual inaccuracies - the conclusion was now clear. I was not going to go ahead with the sale, and I wanted my deposit back, minus reasonable expenses he had incurred in the meantime. So that is what I wrote to him in response to the Unpaid Item Case.
He never responded. I wrote him again, with no response. I was not surprised but I wanted to keep a paper trail. Then I eventually gave him one more phone call, just to see what he would say. He essentially told me that he did not want to discuss a thing, and ended the conversation with ‘If you want your money back, take me to court. Bye!’ - and hung up.
That is precisely what I intend to do.
Conclusion - and further findings
In conclusion, I admit I have been naive. And as I have mentioned, I made one crucial mistake if I ever wanted to get my money back the easy way: using friends&family as Paypal payment method. Not my smartest moment, but my best defence to making that mistake was that I was lulled into trusting the guy.
However, unlike the seller, I handled fairly. I had all the intent to buy: not just the deposit, but also my very expensive insurance policy (now cancelled) and the bank records of taking out the remainder of the money out in cash the day before I expected the sale to happen, they all prove this.
I contacted him before bidding to confirm his returns policy and to explain my intent to get the car checked - but he backtracked and lied about this after I had won the auction.
And then there is the fact that the ad is simply incorrect.
Furthermore, after all this I ended up searching for his Ebay user name online. Turns out there is a lengthy thread about this seller on a separate forum (for Landrovers) with numerous complaints of people who say he duped them. (Proof that it is him) An image of a scam artist is starting to form, whereas previously I just thought he was being an arse but not necessarily a repeating ‘offender’ with a certain modus operandi, so to speak.
So I now know I am far from the only one who has had an experience like this with this seller. This is why, after this super long story, I urge anyone who intends to trade with this guy to be very cautious.
Why 100% rating?
And finally, how could a person with a trail of complaints and who in my own dealings clearly appears to be a scammer have a 100% Ebay rating? The truth is that I do not know, but I have some suspicions. First of all, I cannot leave him feedback myself at the moment. This because I did not actually end up buying the car, so the option right now is not available for me through the Ebay back end.
Second, he has changed his Ebay name recently (around October 2017) - as is shown in the two links of the previous paragraph, which link to a Land Rover Defender owner’s forum. I don’t know if you keep your previous ratings if you change your name. It may mean nothing, but it appears suspect.
So while the 100% rating indeed looks very good, I know that there is at least one person (myself) who would leave a bad rating if they could.
I want to warn people to be very cautious with Ebay seller ‘smokeandpetfreehome.’ I have reason to believe he is, at worst, a scam artist; at best, he is untrustworthy as he lies, bullies and deceives.
I was the winning bidder on a Landcruiser 80 (now relisted). I had all intent to buy this vehicle, as the ad appeared genuine and the seller trustworthy. I could not get the vehicle checked prior to bidding due to it being Christmas. However, I had contacted the seller on Ebay before bidding, to ask about the advertised ‘Returns accepted.’ Via Ebay messaging, I had him confirm in writing that I could get the car checked and returned if required, if I ended up winning the auction.
Once I won, I paid a big deposit, arranged delivery and insurance. But I ended up pulling out of the deal once it became clear that his return policy was a lie and he was trying to prevent me from having the car checked before finalising the sale. Also, I had found in the meantime that the vehicle was not accurately described in the advert - it stated things it does not have.
It appears he normally sells Land Rovers. If you intend to bid on the now re-listed Landcruiser 80 I originally won, I suggest you read the story below for all the details. Also, there are threads elsewhere online of people complaining about this seller (which I only found after I was duped myself). It has become clear to me that he is a scammer, but if not, then at least an extremely disingenuous seller - the 100% rating is a red herring, on which more below as well.
He still owes me a large sum I paid in deposit. I intend to take him to small claims court to get the deposit back.
However I will admit that I made a classic mistake: I trusted a person that I did not know.
----- Full story follows below. It is VERY long but I felt I had to tell the whole thing. ------
Bidding on the car
I was the winning bidder on a Landcruiser 80 he had listed on Ebay. I had bid on the vehicle without having seen it, because I had noticed his auction offered ’Returns accepted within 14 days.’ I also was not physically able to view the vehicle as I was abroad to visit family (the auction ran through the Christmas period).
Before placing a bid, I had contacted him via Ebay messaging to ask whether in case of winning the auction, I could take the car for a check and if any big problems were found, have it returned to him within 14 days. He responded, in writing, ‘I'd accept a return, yes.’ This, in combination with his 100% Ebay rating and an auction that featured many pics and a video, prompted me to bid on and subsequently win the auction.
Context
I should pause here to give some context about myself. While I’ve been driving cars for a few years, including 4x4s off-road, I’ve never before purchased a car and generally know little to nothing about vehicles. I have a plan to go for a long overland trip by the end of 2018 so this is why I have been looking around at Landcruisers for a while now.
I had been looking at ads for Landcruisers for ages but never felt like I was getting any closer because of my aforementioned lack of knowledge. I never went to see a 2nd hand Landcruiser for sale as, first of all, I don’t own a vehicle so going across the country can be difficult or expensive to organise, and second - even if I would show up, I’d just be a tyre kicker due to my lack of knowledge.
When I saw the ad for the red cruiser that ‘smokeandpetfreehome’ had for sale, its video and its plethora of pictures strongly drew my (newbie) interest. When I saw ‘returns accepted’ I got seriously interested. And when he confirmed that he would take the car back after a check and something bad would be found, I became truly seriously tempted.
Then all that was left for me to do was to find reputable people to bring the car to for a check. That is what led me to find this forum. I found a couple of forum members (who I will not name just in case they feel uncomfortable with being associated with this story), who have been extremely generous in sharing information, knowledge and their time with me. They also offered to have the car delivered to one of them so that they could do a proper check.
Paying for the vehicle & arranging delivery
So, I had now won the auction and had found some trustworthy people to get the vehicle checked by. Then as per the auction rules, I contacted the seller to arrange a delivery date and pay a holding deposit. This is where I made my one true mistake.
The mistake was that I agreed to pay the deposit via Paypal using ‘friends and family’ as the payment option, in order to avoid Paypal fees. I should have never done that but did not realise at the time that you cannot raise a dispute for these kinds of payments with Paypal (which in hindsight of course makes sense).
We then proceeded to arrange a delivery date. We agreed to have it delivered to my home on a Friday. In the meantime I arranged with the forum guys to have the car checked on Saturday. I was still thinking, naively, that if we’d find anything major, I could just call the seller and make use of his 14 days return.
When it started to go wrong
Then on the Wednesday of the delivery week, so still three days before actual delivery, I changed my mind and decided I wanted to get the car delivered on Saturday instead, and do the check straight away before finalising the sale. I did not think this would be a bad idea because I still thought the seller was genuine in his intent. So I called him and explained what I wanted to do.
He did not take kindly to the idea, and immediately the first red flags came up. He told me over the phone that the return policy is ‘just something that Ebay puts on the auction.’ That is a lie.
I also reminded him that I had contacted him before bidding about getting it checked and maybe returned, which he denied. I thought he simply had forgotten so reminded him that it was all in our Ebay messaging history. He then deflected and changed the topic to Saturday likely not being possible because the car was in a secure compound, and he wasn’t sure if it could be accessed. He wanted to stick to the original delivery date.
I tried to reassure him that I wasn’t trying to weasel out of the deal. In fact I was in the middle of arranging a very expensive insurance policy for this car, which I finalised the day after. I told him that I fully expected that there would be some small things that would need attention, as it is an old vehicle. I just wanted total peace of mind to cover against anything very major, as per the agreement.
He simply said that he would ‘try’ to get it delivered on Saturday.
I waited throughout Thursday for any news, contacted him a few more times, which he ignored. Then on Friday he finally got back to me and basically told me that it wasn’t going to happen on Saturday and I would have to take receipt the car today. I could not get the car checked on Friday and I think he knew that, because I had told him as much. He did not want to discuss any alternative arrangements, and when I insisted I would not receive it that day, he hung up the phone. He then opened an Unpaid Item Case on Ebay.
Fallout
At this point it was clear to me that he really did not want to have the car checked, and that the whole return ‘policy’ was a bad joke. It now became apparent that he was trying to hide something about the vehicle. Also, with the help of more expert eyes on the ad, I had in the meantime become aware that there were several incorrect statements about the vehicle. It listed things it doesn’t have, simply put.
So the combination of the seller lying about his ‘return policy’, trying to force me to stick to an ‘original delivery date’ even though I had given him 3 days advance warning that I wanted that changed, him not showing an inkling of flexibility to arrange something alternative, and the ad itself having factual inaccuracies - the conclusion was now clear. I was not going to go ahead with the sale, and I wanted my deposit back, minus reasonable expenses he had incurred in the meantime. So that is what I wrote to him in response to the Unpaid Item Case.
He never responded. I wrote him again, with no response. I was not surprised but I wanted to keep a paper trail. Then I eventually gave him one more phone call, just to see what he would say. He essentially told me that he did not want to discuss a thing, and ended the conversation with ‘If you want your money back, take me to court. Bye!’ - and hung up.
That is precisely what I intend to do.
Conclusion - and further findings
In conclusion, I admit I have been naive. And as I have mentioned, I made one crucial mistake if I ever wanted to get my money back the easy way: using friends&family as Paypal payment method. Not my smartest moment, but my best defence to making that mistake was that I was lulled into trusting the guy.
However, unlike the seller, I handled fairly. I had all the intent to buy: not just the deposit, but also my very expensive insurance policy (now cancelled) and the bank records of taking out the remainder of the money out in cash the day before I expected the sale to happen, they all prove this.
I contacted him before bidding to confirm his returns policy and to explain my intent to get the car checked - but he backtracked and lied about this after I had won the auction.
And then there is the fact that the ad is simply incorrect.
Furthermore, after all this I ended up searching for his Ebay user name online. Turns out there is a lengthy thread about this seller on a separate forum (for Landrovers) with numerous complaints of people who say he duped them. (Proof that it is him) An image of a scam artist is starting to form, whereas previously I just thought he was being an arse but not necessarily a repeating ‘offender’ with a certain modus operandi, so to speak.
So I now know I am far from the only one who has had an experience like this with this seller. This is why, after this super long story, I urge anyone who intends to trade with this guy to be very cautious.
Why 100% rating?
And finally, how could a person with a trail of complaints and who in my own dealings clearly appears to be a scammer have a 100% Ebay rating? The truth is that I do not know, but I have some suspicions. First of all, I cannot leave him feedback myself at the moment. This because I did not actually end up buying the car, so the option right now is not available for me through the Ebay back end.
Second, he has changed his Ebay name recently (around October 2017) - as is shown in the two links of the previous paragraph, which link to a Land Rover Defender owner’s forum. I don’t know if you keep your previous ratings if you change your name. It may mean nothing, but it appears suspect.
So while the 100% rating indeed looks very good, I know that there is at least one person (myself) who would leave a bad rating if they could.