Water pump

[warrenpfo]

I have all the bits to do a timing belt and water pump change but am wondering what might happen if i leave the pump till a later date. I am only doing it as I don't know if or when it was last done but the current pump looks and feels to be in good order still.

If i was going to do a long trip then i would carry the new one i have or change it now and carry the old as a spare but apart from looks and feel is there a way to tell if the old pump is still good to go.

 

[Towpack]

If the pump feels and spins OK and there are no cooling issues with the engine then why change it? I've done 2 belt changes (last one a few weeks ago) and never even contemplated changing the pump as it seemed fine. As for changing it while you're in there "just in case", well, you could say that about many parts on the car and besides, it's not exactly difficult or time consuming to get to if you have to go back in and change it at a later date. Others may argue no doubt. JMO

 

[Chris]

Tough call that one. It's almost the flip of a coin.

If I was going on a long trip with the old pump, I'd carry the spare with me. If I changed it out now for genuine and ran it for a week OK, I'd not take a spare. You can't really predict when and where the pump is going to go and whilst you could change it with basic tools, I'd be slightly miffed if it went just before I caught the ferry or in the middle of the desert where all my coolant trickled into the sand with it in the 40's and baking.

If it was a long trip across friendly Europe I would not swap it now. If it was a trip of a lifetime across the Steppes, I think I would. It sounds as if it's in good nick. I swapped one out recently because it had a real wobble in the flange. You could rock and roll on it. It didn't leak or squeak, but once off it was clearly pretty horrid.

 

[clivehorridge]

I'm on my second belt kit change since ownership, and I asked the service guy if the pump should be changed "while he's in there".

He looked at me stupid and said there's nothing wrong with it! He thought it was the original fitment, and good for the next 350k kms. That was 7,000 odd kms ago, I hope it doesn't prove him wrong.

Anyway, the labour charge is low here, so what the heck! Next post I'll be stranded on the mountain

 

[warrenpfo]

I guess I will keep the new pump for a later date. Thanks

 

[Dave2000]

I am a belts and braces type person, I want it right and while in there would get it done but, there is something else to consider here. Behind the water pump is a core plug, and why this particular one corrodes ahead of the others I am not sure, possible due to it's proximity to the turbulence cause by impeller moving around small debris or what I simply do not know, it is no coincidence I have replaced two in the last year....both BEHIND the water pump. The problem with a leaking water pump is putting in sealer from a bottle unlike a rad (or core plug) rarely works as it is the shaft 'running out' that is disturbing/damaging the seal, if labour is cheap then I would consider replacing the pump and the core plug, preventative maintenance?

regards

Dave

 

[warrenpfo]

Thanks for that info...perhaps the best thing to do then is at least remove the pump inspect the plug, replace if required and then if the pump is in good condition re install it with a new gasket. It seems a pity to "disturb" the pump if its working as it should but if like you say there is a part behind it that needs attention i guess its best to at least have a look so you know the condition of the plug.

Any chance of a part number for the plug so i can order it.

EDIT...is it this one 96411-41800

 

[frank rabbets]

Only use a Toyota water pump.

Frank

 

[Chris]

Sounds like you have had a bad experience of pattern parts then Frank. What was the brand that failed on yours? How come yours failed in the first place thought yours only had 140k on it or something?

I think an important thing here is setting the belt tension correctly. Extra load on the pump pulley is particularly detrimental. All too easy to crank the alternator up too tight. With twin belts the tension shouldn't be great to deliver performance.

 

[yogi]

I wouldn't have a huge problem with aftermarket for a water pump in terms of quality (provided it is not made by a man in China by casting the case in his toilet and cutting up a plastic bucket to make the fins).

And there is the problem.....

How do you really know it isn't, you Valeo (Korea) clutch kind of proved that Chris. With such a crucial piece of kit, why not go OEM? I changed mine when I got the truck, and kept the origonal one as a spare even though it seemed perfect. IIRC it wasn't that dear really.
The cooling system is very simple,it only has two moving parts to fail. (pump and stat). Why not change them and the hoses and keep all the old kit as spares when you know they are ok?

 

[Chris]

Sorry Yogi where did I say I wouldn't? It's Frank that expressed a view not me.

On the clutch front I now have a very nice Excedy clutch in there not an Aisin one

I have never advocated only using pattern parts merely that some are perfectly fine
I don't buy bulbs from the main dealer nor tyres but I do buy oil seals there

Problem with the clutch is that a member on here said they'd had one and it had been fine

 

[yogi]

That may have been me that said they got a great clutch from Milner. Except mine was an OEM clutch kit at an aftermarket price. Sorry if that led you to your misery, but I did say it was OEM in the thread.

 

[frank rabbets]

My water pump has not failed Chris.

 

[Chris]

Sorry Frank, my mistake. I took it that you were warning people off based on a bad experience you'd had.
So what you were saying was that you wouldn't fit anything but a genuine one.

I meant to cut the one open that I took off but didn't get around to it. They don't seem to be a part that fails particularly on these engines.

 

[warrenpfo]

Any more info on this "plug" would be appreciated as its the only reason i would disturb my water pump at this stage.

 

[frank rabbets]

It WOULD be interesting to take one apart to see the construction. Back in the 50's there were the cheap type fitted to most cars which had a simple unlubricated seal running against the spindle/ water. These only lasted 4 ish years. Then there were the more expensive ones comprising 2 bronze bellows, one on the casing and one on the spindle. They came together in the middle with a bronze faced seal, all part of the same bronze construction. I never saw one leak and even bearing failure was uncommon. I know today some pumps have rubber bellows pressing on a plastic face seal. I would be interested to see a OEM one in bits.

 

[Chris]

It would Frank, but the swap out was 11th hour before heading off to Lincomb and I threw it in the scrap bin which got emptied shortly after. It wasn't leaking but it was very wobbly and grindy too. It must have a serious seal in there not to have let water past. That was original on an engine with only 78k on it too. But off roading in deep mud and water etc took its toll plus standing for 8 years, I found that lots of seals etc had just given up the ghost from not being used.

 

[Dave2000]

Re the core plug, the front of the core plug (sometimes known as a freeze plug) is protected by the water pump, it is on the INSIDE that you cannot see you need to be aware of. These mild steel plugs are prone to corrosion on any car in particular if it the engine has not seen antifreeze/corrosion inhibitor for any particular period of time but, as the damage cannot be gauged without removing it (which destroys it) then again it is a 'belts and braces' attitude. Many of these vehicles have been on the road TWENTY FOUR years and it is things like core plugs that are not on a maintenance schedule start to fail, you also get the chance to flush out the cooling and have a quick look inside the water jacket, the cost of a plug is probably a couple of quid? When faced with the decisions with a customers car I point out that cars rarely break down on a sunny day outside your front door. You have the pump IMHO go for it!

regards

Dave

 

[warrenpfo]

Thanks Dave.

Is the part number i listed a few posts back the one you are talking about?

Regards

Warren

 

[Dave2000]

The part number is for a core plug but whether it is the correct one I am unsure, I have a Toyota catalogue CD that showed everything but have not got it working with the WIN7 change to my Toughbook. Pop into Toyota and clock the screen, it cannot be missed directly behind the water pump.

regards

Dave