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Weird battery problem (wont start)

Derek

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So today I removed the drivers side battery and tray so I could get better access to the nut to tighten the steering box. While I was spannering about, I accidently bridged the positive terminal to the body, and it made a small spark, nothing major.

Then refitted everything and connected the battery. Didn't spark at all when I re-connected the battery, but when I went to start the engine it sparked from the terminal (negative) and the starter only turned a bit.

Shocked and pissed off, I disconnected the battery and tried to start it again. There was a sort of buzz noise from the near side and the speedo dial moved to like 50mph.

I then came home and sulked :disappointed:

Any ideas on whats buggered? Isnt there a dodgy earth that's common for going?

Thanks
 
It sounds like you need to look at that negative that sparked. Make sure you have a good connection at all points.
 
Was thinking that. The earth wire has frayed were it clamps into the terminal.
 
Pop up a photo Derek. Sounds like it needs re making to the terminal.
 
Yeah it was the earth wire, with me moving it about it obviously lost enough contact for it not to work.
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Cut if back to good copper then plenty copper grease and job done.
 
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Result :thumbup:

Thanks for posting.

It's always a good idea with that type of terminal to make the cable big enough to fill the hole it goes in. One method is to take a piece of copper wire and wrap around the flexi cable strands starting from where the insulation ends working forward to the cut end keeping each spiral winding next to the last. This gives the bolts something to bear down on that is connected to the whole of the cable not just pinching a few strands. The other option is to use a small piece of copper tube or better still one that's made for the job called a bootlace ferrule. I'll try and get some pics up.
 
Result :thumbup:

Thanks for posting.

It's always a good idea with that type of terminal to make the cable big enough to fill the hole it goes in. One method is to take a piece of copper wire and wrap around the flexi cable strands starting from where the insulation ends working forward to the cut end keeping each spiral winding next to the last. This gives the bolts something to bear down on that is connected to the whole of the cable not just pinching a few strands. The other option is to use a small piece of copper tube or better still one that's made for the job called a bootlace ferrule. I'll try and get some pics up.

I've used a short length of copper water pipe before now, cut down its length with tin snoops, and Wrapped it around the wire.

Works great.

Sometimes the bearing face of the clamp screws need to be smoothed and cleaned, I've had them with sharp edges which cut into and through strands instead of clamping them. A bootlaces ferrule, or my bits of copper tube, tend to stop that.
 
Yes, copper tube is great for it if there's room to use it. Anything that stops the fine strands being torn, cut or only partially pinched is good. Even doubling over and twisting well is better than nothing.
 
Yeah will go back and do something like that. The wire is a good fit in the terminal but the bolt still need screwed down a fair bit for it to be clamped properly, thus damaging the copper strands.
 
Copper shim is good. Anything really that's copper and easily fitted really. The wire wrap is good because it uses household fixed wiring conductors which are readily available.
 
I agree the lead connectors mounded round the cable seem to last a long time. However I have seen flexi cables start to fray where the solder ends at a soldered lug. Vibration sometimes causes stress fractures at that point. Best is a properly made crimp in my view.
 
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I'd also go with a soldered connection but, as Frank has pointed out, not always possible. You can also tin the cable with solder to stop the strands spreading, then you can tighten the screw down with minimal damage to the cable end.
 
I used to believe that TP and have done it for MOD products where it was specified. The thing with solder is that it creeps so a soldered tinned end that's then mechanically clamped can become loose over time. Sleeves or 'bootlace ferrules' are now regularly supplied with components for stranded wire especially if on the larger side. MOD now specify crimped lugs with calibrated crimpers. That way the stresses are gradually increased as the cable enters a lug. It's not an instant jump from uncrimped to crimped if you see what I mean.
 
Solder was my first thought but not soldered to the clamp , i was thinking dip the cable end in flux , heat it and let the solder run down through the twist leaving you with a solid bar to clamp to .
 
Problem with soldering cable that size is the heat sink effect of the cable. You just can't get it hot enough. If you heat it with a blow lamp you just melt the insulation. I did lead-dip some once. That seemed to work.

But once again I think it's possible to over think this. For decades it's been perfectly fine to bare the cable, shove it in the clamp and tighten the screws up. This looks like a bit of aged related deterioration here. Either clean it up and remake the joint or change the clamp for a different sort. It doesn't really need some new solution.
 
As I say Chris, the correct solution is to wrap the flexible wire in copper, either wire or sheet (bootlace ferrule). It's not a new concept, its as old as the hills. Simply stuffing flexible cable into a mechanical terminal like this that's probably a little on the big side will fail. You have to fill the terminal and protect the strands. Simples.
As an example any welding connector using grub screws comes with a bit of thin copper sheet to wrap the flexible welding cable with before shoving it up the 'ole and tightening the screws down.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321807121656
It's not overthinking, it's just good electrical practice.
 
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I'm not against good practice Rich. But never let perfect get in the way of what's simply good enough. It's not a nuclear power station. It's a car. They didn't come wrapped from the factory (not just Cruisers I mean).

But I wasn't referring to the ferrule concept. Which is not new. And to which I wasn't actually referring.
 
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