80 series front diffs

[Declan]

A bit of info needed about front diffs, so I have a spare diff lock type one that the pinion and ring gear are wrecked in. I’m able to get an lsd type diff for cheap and wondered is it possible to swap the lsd crown wheel and pinion into the diff lock type housing?

 

[Chris]

Declan I don't think there's enough info in there. Firstly of course the ratio's need to be correct. Obvious I know but there we are. What is is that you are trying to do? Is this an auto or manual? I've never seen a front LSD on an 80 - are you sure? Not clear what that would do to road manners give the considerable differences in front wheel speeds when cornering.
Is the diff in your current vehicle stuffed? I'm really not clear on what you're trying to do. Front diff rings are usually interchangeable with other front front rings, but rear ones are totally different. IE you can't put an LSD rear ring into any front diff at all.

The only differences between any of the rings and pinions regardless of whether they lock or are LSD etc really is the ratio and whether they are front or rear.

Sorry if that's not helping.

 

[Declan]

Right sorry I’ll explain a bit better, I have an 80 series front diff that has the crown wheel and pinion broken. This is a diff lock type housing etc. I was onto a lad coming back from Australia who said he has an lsd diff ie non locker,lying around that he said he would throw into a container if I wanted it. So what I’m trying to do is strip the crown wheel and pinion out of his lsd type diff and put it in my own one to main the diff locks.

 

[Chris]

I get that bit, but I've never heard of a front LSD locker. So is he offering you a rear LSD locker because if he is then that's not going to fit. You can buy new rings and pinions here in the UK; you'd be better putting new in rather than building up something from bit that you know nothing about and then finding it's shagged. You'd need all new bearings and locking tabs, oil retainer, seals and so on. Seems a false economy Declan. Plus like I say, it sounds like he has a rear diff not a front one.

 

[Declan]

I get that bit, but I've never heard of a front LSD locker. So is he offering you a rear LSD locker because if he is then that's not going to fit. You can buy new rings and pinions here in the UK; you'd be better putting new in rather than building up something from bit that you know nothing about and then finding it's shagged. You'd need all new bearings and locking tabs, oil retainer, seals and so on. Seems a false economy Declan. Plus like I say, it sounds like he has a rear diff not a front one.

No he has a non locker front lsd, but you’re probably right it’s proably not worth the hardship

 

[Julian T]

In my opinion Limited Slip Differentials (LSD) are best left on sports or high performance cars, they work very well indeed but I prefer the mechanical option on a 4x4, being old school.

Diffs on the front of the LC 80 are open or lockable, on the rear they are available as open, lockable or limited slip differential (LSD) the center diff is available as a open but switch lockable or LSD type, or at least that is my understanding depending on market and options available at time of ordering.

Open meaning no diff lock, lockable meaning you can lock the diff when you need it locked and LSD meaning the diff mechanically "detects" one wheel turning significantly faster than the other and locks up "automatically".

As Chris says, and certainly I myself would not want a LSD front diff, anytime you went around a corner with any significant amount of steering input/lock then the diff would lock and you would plough straight on.

Personally I would be looking at a replacement ring and pinion set that way you can be certain that the parts are in the best condition they can be and that you diff will give you many years of faultless and worry free service.

You can try toyodiy for part numbers and then amayama, partsourc, euro4x4 and toyota for price quotes on parts, or even someone like our friendly Karl for a used part ensuring that you get the right ratio.

 

[Julian T]

No he has a non locker front lsd, but you’re probably right it’s proably not worth the hardship

So he has a non locking locking diff?????

There appears to be some confusion here, LSD means Limited Slip Differential where I come from.

 

[clivehorridge]

I can’t imagine an lsd on the front, it would be an unsteerable nightmare, surely

I think there’s a misunderstanding here, but if your friend has a good front diff going, the last place it should end up, is in a skip.

JMHO

 

[Chris]

I'm not saying there's never been an LSD front 80 diff, but I've never come across one and I rebuild 80 front diffs. That doesn't mean there isn't one, but it's going to be a new one on me. I think there are some crossed wires here with you and your Aussie pal.

Rear LSDs work in a straight line when there is slippage but aso they work continually when going around corners - just not that much. But it is what contributes toward wear. If you had a front LSD it would be working overtime and be very strange. So OK stop the bus here. The question was, will the ring and pinion from an LSD fit and non LSD diff. Answer - in principle yes. But they'd need to be the same ratio and size. At the risk of being boring here, ratio aside, I don't think that you're being offered a front diff so there's little chance that it's going to fit. You say you have a spare front diff - ok, spare to me means it's not in the axle. So what's wrong with the diff you have in the axle? Or are you wanting to do up a spare to sell it?
There's so much to building a diff up to get it right that I wouodn't chance something coming all the way from the other side of the world when Milner sell them

 

[IRLGW]

I have never bought one but surely a second hand front diff wouldn't be so expensive from one of the breakers.

It would certainly be a new concept to have an lsd front but if you are building an off-roader then why not give it a shot if you can get the parts for free. I'm wondering if it came from a vehicle also fitted with locking front hubs? It might work in that situation but could be a nightmare in snow/ice. A few pics of a front lsd would be nice for educational purposes.

However if you wanted something useful from oz get him to bring you an oversize 5th gear and a set of front locking hubs! Will help the economy in any setup

 

[Chris]

I think there is a wee chance that we're over thinking this question and answering something that hasn't been asked. We really need to hear first if there's been a simple confusion over a rear LSD and a front locking diff. If there has then it's probably game over.

 

[IRLGW]

Apologies to the OP I know see what he wants to know!

Declan you need to find out if there are any numbers on the parts in oz and cross reference them to an 80 front diff parts. I don't think anyone here would speculate as to fit, given the lack of familiarity with the donor part.

It is very possible that the crown wheel and pinion are of the same dimension and fit given that they are said to be an 80 series part. It wont to any harm to have them on your bench for comparison I guess.

Hope this is more relevant.

 

[AndycruiserguyLomas]

AFAIK ring and pinions are the same parts.

 

[Chris]

Do you mean front and back or do you mean LSD and locking, Andy? LSD and locking are the same. But front to back isn't as I'm sure you know

All we need is for Declan to return and clear up what he's been offered. I don't think we're going to get anywhere without that. Oh Declan ..

Maybe we could all shout together 1, 2, 3 DECLAN!!!!

 

[stumog]

You can get a front lsd on any 4x4.

The pinion will be the same type but you need to count the teeth to ensure you get the same ratio as what your taking off. Otherwise it will not work.

Front lsd slip more then a rear slipper so you can still turn.

I think a lsd is a better bet as it's always working when you need it. It doesn't forget until it's to late and your upto your axles

 

[AndycruiserguyLomas]

Do you mean front and back or do you mean LSD and locking, Andy? LSD and locking are the same. But front to back isn't as I'm sure you know
!

Yep I meant F/F and R/R Chris,

 

[Declan]

I really wish i never started this thread what I was offered was a pair of LSD diff centres, that’s all the info I have and haven’t been talking to the lad since so just let this thread die haha

 

[chapel gate]

You can get a front lsd on any 4x4.

The pinion will be the same type but you need to count the teeth to ensure you get the same ratio as what your taking off. Otherwise it will not work.

Front lsd slip more then a rear slipper so you can still turn.

I think a lsd is a better bet as it's always working when you need it. It doesn't forget until it's to late and your upto your axles

The old chap remembers fitting them to maestro vans for BT..

sorry declan..

 

[stumog]

What's a maestro mate?

 

[IRLGW]

No Declan this is a case of we all read your post but replied to what we thought it said and not what it actually said! Upon a 2nd read I understood that this wasn't about swopping from LSD to Locking Diff but whether or not the freggin gears were the same?

As always part nos part nos part nos.

Don't worry about Chris -he only knows three subjects FSM, OEM and SST!