Anyone fitted stiffer anti-roll / sway bars?

[Acronymous]

I'm a new owner/member here but my initial impression of the handling of the 79 series is ... considerable understeer, and although the loss of articulation is a minus I'm thinking that a Whiteline rear, 30mm, sway bar might make cornering slightly more balanced.

 

[Shayne]

When i get around to experimenting with the rear arb (front was removed) I think its probable I will shorten the leverage of the standard bar making it a little more difficult to twist .

Stiffer not stronger .

 

[Acronymous]

Yes, the lever arm is very long so even with a 30mm bar it's not as stiff as it might look to be, if that makes sense.

 

[Derek]

I fitted a thicker front roll bar that came on a breaker of mine. I think it’s 32mm.

Fitted it along with a fully rebuilt axle with all new rubber bushes/ springs and shocks so it drives lovely now with slightly less roll than before. Almost corners level infact.

 

[Acronymous]

On the plus side, a heavier roll bar on the front will reduce roll but it will also increase understeer and decrease articulation. A heavier roll bar on the rear will also reduce roll and it should decrease understeer. Again, the disadvantage will be decreased articulation and more of a tendency to transfer lift or drop reactions from one side of the car to the other, which slightly decreases the ride comfort, not that too many of us hold the last one as a prime concern.

 

[frank rabbets]

If the LC is top heavy with stiff bars I assume it will lift the inside wheels off the ground when cornering.

 

[Shayne]

Thats basically how the arb works Frank it compresses the opposite suspension in sympathy . It won't lift a wheel it just firms everything up .

That it reduces body roll is almost incidental , track cars all fit stiffer bars for grip . But they don't need much suspension flex .

 

[Dave2000]

I know this is an old thread but would like to put my couple of cents in.

The LC 80 was designed for rough use, look at the stock suspension. the trailing arms way thicker and other components that are built tougher than the Land Rover Discovery and most other 4x4's of that era, which were supposed to be able to do the same kind of work off road. Because of the cost of vehicle modifications and getting them ratified for the ITV (MOT) and then the insurance most here in Spain keep modifications to a minimum. So having said that and putting it to one side my 80 is pretty much stock, yes electric cooling fan so the stock fan is gone (and yes it does work in Spain with 40+ degrees C) you just need to do it properly, and solar panel in the roof rack and other mods which making camping out more comfortable, the suspension is stock. So with roof rack packed with RTT, sand ladders, 60" Hi Lift, 40 litres of fuel, a second spare wheel, inside a full load of 'modules' to carry cooker, fridge, spare starter, alternator, CV, and everything worked out to maximum weight allows the 80 to drive fine on and off road.

My point is the suspension/steering geometry is great in stock form, the moment you 'mess' with the suspension you pretty much ruin the work that Toyota done with the OE specification, yes the steel guard protecting the fuel tank on mine has taken a knock or two on mine but nothing too bad, that is after all why it's there. Now don't get me wrong, I do get the 'great look' aspect with the bigger suspension lift and bigger wheels and tyres and the the nice paint job, but with a higher centre of gravity the ARB will be worked harder in off road situations as will pretty much every other component of the suspension. I have been off road with a number of this and other club members who have seriously modified 80's, and on one occasion climbing out of a deep ditch I broke off one of the plastic corners of the (stock) front bumper, keeping in mind the corners are sacrificial anyway and was soon riveted back in place and yes the paint does get scratched. and that's it, so with that great paint job.......are you really serious about going off road?

I think if you are into competitions as I was with my Discovery, then yes modifications are needed to cope with stresses and conditions (taken at speed against a clock), that are not seen in the typical on/off road scenario, this is because they are two completely different disciplines. Many cite the 'KISS' principle which I agree with in most circumstances, and I think if you are serious about a particular area for example competition use then fine go with it, otherwise leave it alone.

In reality the somewhat weird vehicle mod laws here in Spain making mods not illegal but the cost of making them legal (and of course the somewhat gray area of the insurance aspect), actually taught me a lot about what a good stock 4x4 can and actually will do off road, your driving skills are enhanced, the line you choose through a particularly rough track is chosen with more care, and you do (will) become mechanically more sympathetic, so sit back and spend a little more thought about the intended use of your 80 (or any other vehicle) before spending lots of your hard earned cash.

Regards

Dave

 

[Shayne]

Hence caster correction after a lift , extended panhards and roll bar links etc .

I try to go out as well as up , but the game is ultimately to ingeniously retain Toyota's intended geometry while taking into consideration that geometry is incorrect because it wasn't calculated for a taller more top heavy truck .

Modifying is a hobby in itself quite apart from the fun of driving off road .

I'd be devastated if my steering wheel started shaking at 90mph due to modification because it would mean I'd messed up my calculations , same if i experienced under or oversteer .

If i was building a road legal but specifically for off road toy then aesthetics would be the first thing i'd sacrifice . No more shiny paint to worry about , no more care concern and ingenuity - a sledgehammer and grinder will make it fit quick cheap and easy .

No more caution while navigating off road obstacles as is required while driving a truck i also ferry family to weddings and funerals in .

If my off road toy was crap on road I'd just have to drive home slower .

 

[Dave2000]

I agree, getting the geometry right is the priority and sod the the paintwork if you are going to get into not so easy places, the hardy landscape here can have bushes that I swear feed on barbed wire being so tough to withstand the desert heat. Back to the OP. When negotiating tough terrain we go slower, when on a motorway we go faster however, a higher vehicle regardless of what anti roll bars are fitted, or how well the castor correction is along with other alignment settings, it will turn over the higher it is, the laws of physics dictates this, the point I was making is that Toyota got it pretty damn right in the first place for on/off road use, now if you are going rock climbing then you need clearance and lift but hang on........doesn't that mean more chance of rolling over?

Regards

Dave

 

[Shayne]

Top heavy is obviously bad but a heavier top can be neutral .

A lift generally means bigger heavier tyres and other stuff like rocksliders to counterweight . Tipping point is fixed by the centre of gravity and the arb serves no purpose at all when your in that danger zone .

I'd say the arbs main purpose is to keep all four wheels on the ground when you swerve to avoid at speed .

 

[Dave2000]

My COG is higher by the weight on the roof rack for sure, I go off road to camp and stay away to pretty isolated places and never do simple green landing, hence a reluctance to add any lift. Besides, I am finding it harder to lean over and reach the dipstick now!

I think this is a very 'horses for courses' subject, there are merits and of course demerits to each situation.

ARB......who are they?

Regards

Dave

 

[Acronymous]

There's definitely scope to tune any suspension for specific situations or even driver preference. Most car manufacturers set up suspension for understeer on the basis that it's safer in a loss of traction incident, if the front wheels lose grip under braking and the car ploughs off the road front first. This is particularly true for US vehicles but Toyota has decided it doesn't want Landcruisers wildly spinning out tail first on corners and has also gone for understeer as the default arrangement. So the point about fitting a rear sway bar is, that it effectively transfers some of the roll force that would have been borne by the [slightly overloaded] outside front wheel onto the [slightly underloaded] outside rear wheel. Along with this it very slightly increases the chance that you'll slide the tail out in fast cornering but you'd have to be pushing it!

I love this YouTube clip of a very tall Russian truck taking on a rally car in a hillclimb. The suspension in these things must be incredible:

Jules