blown transfer box - Wales trip

[SpinDrift]

I have just heard back for the garage: it seems that on that ill faithed icey hill in Wales, it was the transfer box that gave up the ghost. The theory is that it locked up because of transmission wind up and exploded. Embarrassingly, this seems to be something that is commonly seen on green ovals but never or rarely on LC's. The garage are trying to track down a used unit. Once they find one, it should be a couple of hours work to get it fitted.

What I cannot understand is how this might have happened on the terrain we were on - there should have been more than enough slippery stuff on the ground for any wind up to be released through the wheels. The garage reckons that the boots on diff side of the half shafts came off with the excersion. Reverse stopped working once I got to the bottom of the hill. I wonder if something might have gone in the front part of the transmission system which then caused the wind up (maybe during the long reverse down the hill) resulting in the box going. If that is the case, then there is more damage yet to be uncovered (cv/splines/shaft/diff????).

cheers

 

[Gav Peter]

Flingers clossed for a speedy fix to this one & that there's no other faults found...

 

[BobMurphy]

Embarrassingly, this seems to be something that is commonly seen on green ovals but never or rarely on LC's. The garage are trying to track down a used unit. Once they find one, it should be a couple of hours work to get it fitted.

I am currently repairing a Transfer Box for a member from Somerset.

His Nephew had been driving the '97 Prado on dry roads with the centre diff locked when it hit problems.

The stress burst the centre diff Planet Carrier . . . .

The steel locking pin from the outer planet gear's shaft then fell into the Annulus and jammed the outer Planet Gears - resulting in stripped teeth.

The pin was still there when I stripped the box.

The good news is that a complete Planet Carrier Assembly, plus a gasket and seal kit and a couple of nuts for the companion flanges cost just over £200 from Ian Rubie.

It should be back together as soon as I can brave the cold in the workshop


Bob.

 

[SpinDrift]

Hi Bob,

Transmission wind up on a dry road I can understand, but the terrain we were on snow that in places had turned to ice. There should have been more than enough slippage to release any wind up. It was so slippery than in places even we were slipping when we got out of the vehicle.

In my case the garage figure that it is cheaper to get and fit a used box than to strip down the old one and replace the damaged parts.

cheers

 

[sae70]

Blimey Here's a few links that may be of help to you Good luck

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[Gav Peter]

I must have had a lucky escape in my 90 the one time I took it offroad as I had the centre diff in for bloomin ages on the road before the guy following me warned me...

Did you get it to WCO in the end Reinhard or did you find someone more local?

 

[SpinDrift]

Hi Gav,

I had it taken to WCO - thanks for the contact.

cheers

 

[SpinDrift]

What I did do on part of the drive to Wales was engage the centre diff in high because of the snow and ice on the road - but as far as I know that is ok - or am I wrong?

 

[Gav Peter]

No worries - they're good guys up there

Have you tried Karl for the parts - I know he was breaking a SWB 90 a while back... There might be some scrapings left on the carcus!!!

I can't help with the use of the centre diff on a snowy road - I would have thought it was ok for short periods at slow speeds. I tend to use my lockers once I'm in trouble rather than in anticipation of trouble... Even then I need prompting!!!

When I was driving on the roads with mine all locked up by mistake, I could hear the tyres 'ripping' on the road surface on tight turns & thought how odd...

 

[sae70]

What I did do on part of the drive to Wales was engage the centre diff in high because of the snow and ice on the road - but as far as I know that is ok - or am I wrong?

Sorry to say but this must have been when the damage was done

When I bought my first 4x4 Shaky a Suzuki Vitara I though that there was some thing wrong with the gearbox/transfer-box as when ever I drove her in 4wd she would very quickly violently jump out of gear! Suzukis have a permanently locked centre diff that is not in use when in 2wd but as soon as you select 4wd high or low she is locked & so just cannot be used in 4wd unless slippage allows! Now I bring this up as because she just seemed to violently jump out of gear when she wasn’t happy because of wined-up I would know immediately if I had over stepped the design parameters! Now in bone dry sunny day tarmac conditions she would only last about 50 to 150 meters before the wined-up got so bad that she jumped out of gear! In heavy rain she would go a bit longer but would still complain eventually this depended if I was going in a straight line (dual-carriage ways) or wiggly windy (back roads). Wet wiggly windy roads she would go longer I guess because this would cause more situations for slippage. Now in snow & ice so long as you were on slush/snow & ice no problems but the second you hit a clear patch even if wet she would violently jump out of gear again! I guess I was very lucky in these early days of 4x4 ownership not to have caused far more damage while doing this but it was long before I really understood the whole open & locked diff thing & I was happy in my ignorance with regards to what was really going on. My main reason for babbling on like this is what is surprising about this is how quickly transmission wined-up occurs given the correct conditions 50/100/150meters & BANG she would go (it always made me jump)!

When I was driving on the roads with mine all locked up by mistake, I could hear the tyres 'ripping' on the road surface on tight turns & thought how odd...

LOL @ Gav I know what you are talking about It's almost like a sixth sense comes into play when the old transmission starts to wined-up you know some thing's a miss but you just can't imediatly put your finger on what it is It's like a feeling or some thing

 

[Richard Jackaman]

I would have thought you'd be alright running on slippery/snowy tarmac with a locked center diff unless you already had a weakness in the box beforehand.

When I first got my 80 I was getting the same `ripping' sound that Gav mentioned. It turned out that the center VC had seized giving the same effect as permanently locking the center diff.

Don't know how long it had been like that but probably years according to what I'd heard from a friend who knew the truck.

Removal of the VC and all is well, touch wood.

Cheers

Richard

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

on an 80/100 series a locked centre diff (or failed VC on an 80) just wears the CV's out in double quick time. I'm surprised the transfer box on a 90 would be so easily broken Can't have been due to wind up off road. Have to wait and see if they think anything else is broken and which came first.

 

[Gav Peter]

I would tend to agree with Jon that driving like that would damage the box in such a manner unless there was another underlying problem...

LOL @ Gav I know what you are talking about It's almost like a sixth sense comes into play when the old transmission starts to wined-up you know some thing's a miss but you just can't imediatly put your finger on what it is It's like a feeling or some thing

No 6th sense this end Steve - total blind ignorance in spades but no sense, 6th or otherwise!!!

 

[silvercruiser]

Sorry to hear that Reinhard i hope you get it back soon without any more underlying issues.


Joe

 

[Chris]

Locking the CD on a 90 is absolutely fine on a snowy road. Wind up is partly brought about by poorly mated non full time 4x4 systems. Colorados are very well made and designed to run in CDL mode at fast road speeds. You can engage on the fly up to about 60mph and that's in the handbook. With the font diff being completely open, the front wheels will sort them selves out in terms of left to right. I have had 90s and 120s with this set up for quite some time and have used the CDL extensively in all sorts of conditions and not had a problem. The more you use them the better they are and really don't suffer from this legendary wind up that the LRs do. They really don't. They do suffer from under-use syndrome which is what makes engaging and disengaging difficult at times. Not really wind up. Certainly not on 10"of fresh snow.

Reinhard, standing next to you vehicle when this happens I have to say that I don't think that this failure was linked solely to the one episode. When it went, your rear wheels were under load and the fronts were scrabbling. There was plenty of release going on. Then there was this sort of 'pop' noise. Nothing dramatic at all. Then we saw the grease from the CVs. I still don't know how they came off. Your wheels were straight ahead. Having blown a rear diff myslef, I know what sort of punishment that they need to break and I would say that your driving was well within any sensible limits at the time. I can only think that something in the drive train was on the way out for whatever reason and this just tipped the scale. All academic I know, but there is definitely another explanation than going at it hard and breaking the transfer box through mistreatment.

They are well made and very strong. Not a common failure at all. Look at how hard some of the other 90 owners drive theirs!

Glad you are on the road to recovery. Going to be tight for Wales I think.


Chris

 

[karl webster]

Reinhard,
Not good news regaring the problem. As gav said though i have got the gearbox/transfere box at the min. Took it off yesterday and will be listing on ebay before the weekend. Unless you decided you want it. Good look with it all

thanks karl

 

[SpinDrift]

All,

thanks for your support. As most of you are saying the transfer boxmay not be the only problem. We will see - hopefully its wont be very expensive. I will not be making this weekend's trip to Wales

Karl: I'll get back if I need the transfoer box - thanks.

cheers

 

[BobMurphy]

In my case the garage figure that it is cheaper to get and fit a used box than to strip down the old one and replace the damaged parts.

I'd agree that the Transfer Box shouldn't have failed on snow and ice and now I'm curious.

When the garage said it had "exploded", what did they mean (have they looked inside) ???

The main reason for my post was to say that these things can be repaired (providing the cases are intact) and it isn't second-mortgage territory. It helps if you just pay for the parts though (I'm not charging my time for the re-build as its good experience for me).

When I finish, I'll know that everything inside the re-built box is OK - you won't know what you're getting with a box from a scrapper and I find that important.

Good luck with it, I'll be following this with interest.

Bob.

 

[Gav Peter]

Any update on your truck yet Reinhard?

 

[SpinDrift]

No news I'll give WCO a call in the morning