brakes

[Guest]

Hey Julian
Give up with the slaging so early in the morning, I usually leave that up
to my kids, who always do a superb job, or even better myself.
The spanner in hand is no problem at all its when I do something and then
think was it this one or that one, why is that happening.
Whats this bit, where did that fall from.
O crap what did I do and why do I have a feeeling of weakess in my belly. O
yea now I know, its because I ----- up again.
But I have looked at the manual and some of it seems to make sense.
But it does give at least ten possible problems which im sure would be fine
for the mechanically inclined but I will look and look.
I think half the problem is that its grand to look, but when you have
nothing else to compare to to assertain if things are correct or not there
in lies the problem. Lack of experience to know what is what and then lack
of balls really to tackle things cause of the fear or certainty of --------
every thing up. Or when somthing is attemped and you spent a long time
listening and waiting for bits to fail or fail off when driving, I think
thats the best one really.
At least when my Yaris guy cant fix it, it still drives.Still a sense of
humour helps.
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT

 

[Guest]

Hi Guys
I was just wondering if any of you have the drilled /slotted brake discs and
if you have how do you find them.
Do any of you use the kevlar or other performance brake pads and if so how
do you find them.
Or if any of you know what is good to buy and what is good to avoid when
thinking of upgrading the braking system on the cruiser.
cheers
john 92 HDJ 80 1HDT

 

[Guest]

John, with regard to upgrades I can make no comment as my system is 100%
"std". I have Toyota pads and Milner discs.
"Honest John" who has a very good section in the saturday motoring
section of the Daily Telegraph often reccomends Rossini discs. I have
never used them, possibly someone on the list has usage even if not with
an 80.
Here is link to the page for landcruisers.
http://www.carparts-direct.co.uk/catalogues/rossini_brake_discs_detail.cfm
You will note that the later cruisers benefitted from bigger diameter
discs. Before the question "can I fit bigger discs" comes - dont bother
very expensive, caliper change and possibly change to 16 inch wheels.
Having driven your vehicle I think a thorough overhaul of your brakes
would work wonders.
Gareth.

 

[Guest]

I have the DBA slotted discs (put on 4 yrs, not sure on mileage on them) and
all fine.
I 'think' they are better than stock but would have 2 go back 2 my notes
around that timeframe.
No issues.
Run std TOYO 80 or 100 series pads on them (likely will stick with 80 pads
as cheaper)
Lal
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed]
[mailto:[Email address removed]]On Behalf Of John Byrne
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 6:35 AM
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: [ELCO] brakes
Hi Guys
I was just wondering if any of you have the drilled /slotted brake discs and
if you have how do you find them.
Do any of you use the kevlar or other performance brake pads and if so how
do you find them.
Or if any of you know what is good to buy and what is good to avoid when
thinking of upgrading the braking system on the cruiser.
cheers
john 92 HDJ 80 1HDT

 

[Guest]

Thanks Lal
Its just im always thinking about what can be made better.
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT

 

[Guest]

hi guys
I had my brakes bleed today and hoped it would improve the brake feel, well
it didn't.
My pedal is now even softer than before.
This is after getting new discs all round, new pads all round, and new rear
calipers aswell.
Im pissed off at this stage to say the least but dont know what else to do
to improve the braking ability.
I really dont want to replace the discs now with the slotted/drilled discs,
but if I have to I will.
All I want is good brakes, not really much to ask but yet seems to be as
far away as Mars.
Any ideas please. On another list there was talk about new brakes lines make
of brade steel and adjusting the rear pressure on the brakes.
What will this do and how do you adjust the rear brakes.
On a plus side it seems the new OME steering damper is giving a better feel
to the steering so all i can do is hope this will last or I am not imagining
it.
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT

 

[Guest]

John,
Describe how the brake pedal feels (engine off/on etc..), what
troubleshooting have u done etc..
I had a bad master brake cylinder (MBC) at on stage and once fixed
everything was great. Up 2 that point (when started going bad) I was
bleeding till the cows came home!
Lal
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed]
[mailto:[Email address removed]]On Behalf Of John Byrne
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 2:49 PM
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: [ELCO] brakes
hi guys
I had my brakes bleed today and hoped it would improve the brake feel, well
it didn't.
My pedal is now even softer than before.
This is after getting new discs all round, new pads all round, and new rear
calipers aswell.
Im pissed off at this stage to say the least but dont know what else to do
to improve the braking ability.
I really dont want to replace the discs now with the slotted/drilled discs,
but if I have to I will.
All I want is good brakes, not really much to ask but yet seems to be as
far away as Mars.
Any ideas please. On another list there was talk about new brakes lines make
of brade steel and adjusting the rear pressure on the brakes.
What will this do and how do you adjust the rear brakes.
On a plus side it seems the new OME steering damper is giving a better feel
to the steering so all i can do is hope this will last or I am not imagining
it.
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT

 

[Guest]

Hi Guys
Just to add , I have been back to Toyota about the crappy brakes and they
said they did not think they would have to bleed the LSPV at the rear axel
at all.
So I explained it should be the last nipple to be bleed.
He did say if this did not improve the brakes I am looking at a new master
brake cylinder, because when he bled the brakes he found no air at all in
any of the points.
So If I have to get the master would it be usual to get one from Milner or
should I just go with Toyota for safetys sake, but not pocket sake.
Curious though when I phoned Milner they said that the rear and
the front wheel bearings are the same.
Yet when I went back to Toyota today they were of the impression that the
rear was not the same as the front and thats why they put the rear ones I
bought from Milner in the front cause they say the rear are completly
different.
So needless to say i am confused again cause im being told two different
things so can anyone clear this up for me.
I was also on to the injector pump guy again cause since I got
the cruiser back it is vibrating a hugh amount all the time when its put in
D or R or any gear untill I put pressure on the foot pedal to increase the
revs.
Its like the revs drop once its put in any gear.
Is there a rev sensor or something that tells the engine to keep the revs up
when its put in gear, just a thought, but silly I know.
This is really bad when in traffic or at lights or really anywhere where you
need to be ready or move at slow speed.
He said it had nothing to do with the pump at all and maybe to do with the
trottle .
I asked Toyota and they said it must be the pump, so again more confusion
for me.
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT very confused

 

[Guest]

Hi John,
Well they need to read their manuals!!
I would check the brake lines to the calipers first - they are cheaper to
replace and I have come across a few reports of these bulging so there is less
pressure going to the brakes.
Check with Milner, they will probably be selling genuine Toyota ones. Also
consider just getting the master cylinder rebuilt with new seals.
They have been the same on all the 80s I have worked on.
I don't have my EPC up and running at the moment, but will check later today
for you.
What revs are you getting at tickover and then when you engage drive?
They will do as the engine is put under load.
No.
Your tickover should be around 800rpm. If there is a significant drop in rpm
when you engange a gear it would imply that the engine isn't delivering enough
power to maintain the revs.
How does it drive once you move off - are you getting the same level of
performance as before the rebuild?
Are you getting any smoke out of the back whilst driving or whilst
accelerating?
I'm wondering if it is being under fueled, it might be worth upping the Load
Volume Screw on the injection pump a bit, but make sure that to don't increase
it so much that you are throwing smoke out of the back all of the time - you
should only really get smoke when under hard acceleration.
Increasing the amound of fuel being enjected will increase the amount of power,
however with it you will get higher temps in the engine and more black smoke
(unburnt fuel) out the back. Without a Pyrometer fitted you need to strike a
balance.
I have a length of old exhaust pipe with an almost 90 degree bend in it that I
shove up the end of the exhaust pipe to direct the exhaust out of the side.
It's a bit 'Heath Robinson' but enables me to monitor the smoke from the
exhaust using the side mirror when driving.
By gently tweaking the load volume screw (on the back of the fuel pump when
looked at from the front of the car) never more than about a 1/8th to 1/4 turn
at a time you should be able to get a reasonable compromise between power and
smoke. I have managed to gain an average of 4mpg on my 80 by doing this ;-)
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Skype: julianvoelcker
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift

 

[Guest]

Hi Julian
She runs at 800 revs at idle but once its put in gear it drops and then
vibrates madly.
But once a little pressure is applied to bring the revs back up to say about
the 800 again she is fine.
The performance is good , same as before from the engine.
Ok how do i check the brake lines and what am I looking for.
Can the LSVP be adjusted by Toyota when they have it tomorrow.
Ok ill have a look for the load volume screw.
Its a real pain in the arse when you are told a few conflicting things from
guys who you did believe should know their stuff, and of course not really
knowing myself does not help.
But I am to change that as with all the other things.
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT

 

[Guest]

Hi John,
What does it drop to - I doubt mine drops more than 50-100rpm at the most.
But there again I recall you have had this vibration problem for a while and I
suspect that the vibration is down to low tickover.
The brake lines are metal down to near the axle where you have a flexible
rubber hose to the calliper - you need to check these whilst someone pumps the
break pedal to see if you can see any bulging or other movement (lengthening).
However, am I right in thinking that the brakes weren't so spongy before they
went in to Toyota? If this is the case make sure that they bleed the system
properly before bothering with much else.
It is very easy to adjust, but for the time being I would concentrate on
getting it bled through properly.
I think history has proved on this list that there are very few dealers out
there that know what they are talking about.
Always ask first on the list here, it may take a little longer, but you will
always get a better response.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Skype: julianvoelcker
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift

 

[Guest]

John,
Get a service kit for your cylinder and rebuild it, or get a
friend to do it. Try replacing the caliper hoses first as that is not
money wasted.
Regards, Clive.

 

[Guest]

Dont say a word, I have just plucked up the courage to bleed the brakes.
I bought a kit for bleeding the brakes made by Draper for 14 euro and its
great.
I could not do the fifth nipple cause I could not find it and be sure it
was it so decided to leave it alone for Toyota.
When I did the bleeding the pedal was worse than before but I decided to
give it a second shot and now I have a hard pedal.
Or am I stupid in thinking this will last.
I used about 21/2 litres of fluid to do it twice, but if it works, well it
was worth it.
Another job that had to be done through nessessity that i did not want to do
to start with.
So I still dont know why I now have the desired pedal or what was wrong in
the first place.
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HSDT

 

[Guest]

John,
Glad u FIXED IT -- so much 4 those Toyo "experts" and other mechanics etc...
I can send a photo 4 5th nipple (no this is not some bizarre female idiom)
aka LSPV
John - u're getting the hang of this fixen-4-yourself
On a side note I was driving down from a family picnic out (up in the
mountains) and had a smoky spell. Thought it was the car in front of me but
looking behind I c smoke from my DS rear wheel. Pulled in and sure enough
lots of smoke coming outa wheel - looked like brake/caliper. Let it cool
down and drove home (slowly) using gears and hardly any brake.
Checked it out later and rear (axle) seal is gone and leaking oil into hub.
Lots of googy black "oil" around calipers (only u side) so when got hot
coming down mtn it decided 2 burn off. Lucky didn't catch fire (have an
extingusher in car).
Moral of story (1: have extingusher, 2: don't ignore slow axle oil leak
Lal
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed]
[mailto:[Email address removed]]On Behalf Of John Byrne
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 2:20 PM
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: Re: [ELCO] brakes
Dont say a word, I have just plucked up the courage to bleed the brakes.
I bought a kit for bleeding the brakes made by Draper for 14 euro and its
great.
I could not do the fifth nipple cause I could not find it and be sure it
was it so decided to leave it alone for Toyota.
When I did the bleeding the pedal was worse than before but I decided to
give it a second shot and now I have a hard pedal.
Or am I stupid in thinking this will last.
I used about 21/2 litres of fluid to do it twice, but if it works, well it
was worth it.
Another job that had to be done through nessessity that i did not want to do
to start with.
So I still dont know why I now have the desired pedal or what was wrong in
the first place.
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HSDT

 

[Guest]

Hi all,
Tonight I did both front flexible caliper hoses. One thing to watch
for is the rigid pipes -it is useful to have a spare section and a
flaring tool just in case a nut cannot be turned on the metal pipe and
the pipe gets twisted or otherwise damaged. The price of two flexible
hoses at a Toyota dealer in London - ca =A350.
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80

 

[Guest]

Well Lal
Not by choice I can tell you, fixing all these bits and bobs cause I have to
not because I want to.
But the more I deal with more people in connection with the cruiser the more
I dispare which leads me into a place called O shit I will have to try to
learn more and do more.
I still have to get the steering box fixed but it will have to wait for a
while.
I see your still sticking it over there in that place where you can roam and
camp and O yea use your cruiser off tarmac.
Thanks for the tips , so will you have to renew the caliper and disc/pads
etc as i did or will you be lucky. So what caused this to happen.
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT

 

[Guest]

Hi John,
If this has resolved the problem with the brakes it would imply that the
dealer failed to get even a basic bleed right - I would have a serious word
with the workshop or branch manager abaout this - certainly don't pay their
last bill.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Skype: julianvoelcker
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift

 

[Guest]

Hey Julian
Ah im too soft with these guys but thats why its great to have the correct
information at hand when they talk crap or dont do something.
The last bill was paid but the way i look upon it is today i am getting the
rear wheel bearing done for free and already the front ones have been done.
So now all four will have been dione for the price of two.
Il still not too sure if I should let them near the fifth nipple for the
brakes as this may mess up the brakes again or would it.
Can air get back into the brakes from the nipple.
Is it just air that seeps in and the moisture thats causes the brakes to
fade over time.
Its amazing that I have had a guy fit new discs/calipers/pads and the brakes
were crap and before that i had it left in to Toy with the seized caliper.
And along cam JB the nervious wnat to do it wantaby machanic and fixes it.
Just does not make sense to me.
cheers
john92 HDJ 80 1HDT

 

[Guest]

Hi Julian
I got the cruiser back and they have fitted the wheel bearings in the right
place this time.
My brakes are still good.
I dont know what is happening.
Toyota guys had a good look at my vibration issues and have declared it is
aboulutly nothing mechanical.
They had it on the ramp and spent a lot of time checking all the bits and
pieces, so that just leaves the pump.
Now the pump guy is over 11/2 hour away if I dont get stuck behind a tractor
or such, so I would like to avoid that trip if I could.
You said that there is a nut or switch at the rear of the injector pump, do
you have a pic of it as I dont want to mess with the wrong thing.
Geese whats happening to me wanting to tackle another job and all within two
days of each other.
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT

 

[Guest]

Hi John,
I would leave it. I am surprised the brakes weren't OK after the new calipers
and even more surprised that the dealer supposedly bled them and then the
problems were resolved until you bled them twice.
Personally I usually always totally flush and bleed the brake fluid when
changing callipers or pads - it doesn't take that much and is amazing how much
crap can come out.
Yes if you don't do it up tight enough. When bleeding the old trick was to put
a tube from the nipple into a jar of brake fluid so that only fluid gets sucked
back before you tighten up.
However try not to over tighten the nipple - they are a right royal pain if too
tight and can even snap (although not seen that on an 80).
The air and moisture seeps past the seals in the callipers and cause corrosion.
Also running with thin disks leading to the pads getting extra hot and feeding
the heat back to the calliper doesn't help, however they only cause spongyness,
not fade.
Brake fade generally occurs when the pads get too hot and loose their braking
ability - this can be down to driving like a maniac, thin disk (not cooling
properly/dissipating the heat), clogged vents in the disks or poor/crappy brake
materials.
Does say much about the previous attempts.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Skype: julianvoelcker
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift