eu in or out poll

[Pat]

Having been an elected local body politician for 10 years and in that time making submissions to select committees and having had personal contact with leaders,mp's etc.I applied a test:-Would I give that person a job if I was paying them and my conclusion is that all of us are represented by the biggest and most gutless bunch of people you can find anywhere.That goes for every democracy in the world.Benevolent dictatorship can be good.e.g.Lee Kuan Yew.Dr.Salazar.

 

[Chas]

Still applies I think.

 

[clivehorridge]

Good old Winnie!

Admittedly, he made some disastrous mistakes, but without him we would have been sunk in those times. I do think politicians these days hedge their bets in safety and on the European debate, safety has only been considered as safety in unity and numbers.

Not enough forethought of the long-term implications of this unity has been given to it, despite the evidence so far, which is probably only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to sovereignty issues and the like.

There's plenty of unity examples which have failed in the past around the world under various circumstances, the former USSR (CCCP), the former Czechoslovakia, and it goes without saying that we wouldn't want to part of a bitter European civil war when it all goes tits-up, would we.

 

[chapel gate]

We havnt got leaders anymore. They are more like double glazing salesman..

 

[Rob Cowell]

There's plenty of unity examples which have failed in the past around the world under various circumstances, the former USSR (CCCP), the former Czechoslovakia

The former British Empire?

 

[Chas]

Something has just occurred to me, what difference, if any, might there be to recovery in the case of vehicle breakdown while in France etc if we leave the EU?

 

[clivehorridge]

The former British Empire?

Im not so ready to accept that the former British Empre failed, I think of it more in terms of Britain finally recognizing its basic ideals that countries should be free to pursue their independence.

Having said that, this has been with certain reservations, as going by your location Rob, you will be acutely aware

I look at it as 'growing up' or maturing in the modern age, albeit yet long way to go.

Strange isn't it, modern acceptance by the west that countries and people should be free, then at the same time unifying European countries on the pretext of creating that freedom (wtf) and amongst us ISIS supporters hell bent on a united Islamic State consuming the whole world.... (double wtf) I'm almost glad I'll be leaving this mortal coil before any of this dust settles one way or another...

 

[Chas]

I'm almost glad I'll be leaving this mortal coil before any of this dust settles one way or another...

You and me both Clive. Well not before July 23rd anyway.

 

[clivehorridge]

You and me both Clive.

Sad really Chas, it's our only escape.

I'm sure we're not the first to say similar, or the last, the world keeps on turning and I do have faith that things will improve. I wouldn't have wanted to live in the Middle Ages, so the faith is not misplaced IMO.

 

[Crispin]

You and me both Clive. Well not before July 23rd anyway.

You should not be allowed to vote then

Don't want you mucking up my future knowing you're going to kick the bucket tomorrow

(as I am sure you know - I jest)

I think it has been a fascinating read. We're a net contributor to the EU. That is inevitable if you're in a collective and you're richer than the rest. I pay taxes so lazy f**k-tards can sit at home on benefits. However, someone who is on child support also works as a cleaner for someone who is not.

The argument for leaving because we pay in massively to the EU does not make much sense. If it did then I would want to live in a street with people who earn exactly the same as me. Please remove the council flats nearby. I don't want to know them.

Stop the money pumping into the EU?
So, do we then create a group of rich countries where we don't have to help out the poorer ones? Let's say France, Germany, UK, Holland etc. That way we won't pay in anything to the club. The poorer ones will sort them selves out.
At some point, we'll be overrun by people seeking to come to the big club (much like is what's happening now if the refugees). They'll speak Greek, Italian, Irish, Spanish etc. (How many people did I offend in one go )

Yes, we pump money into the EU. But I pump money into the tax system so that lazy knobs, and the less fortunate, are supported and helped. I in turn get stability (South Africa - no to little social care, colossal crime rate one of the side effects) and I get labour cheaper - the lady on social care will work for £12 an hour cleaning my house. Penelope, from the rich road, will do no such thing.


Like has been said, the INs and OUTs need to stop the stupid arguments and actually come up with reasons why we should vote in or out - not why-not.

Will the EU ever be perfect? Nope. No collective is. The tax system is not. I pay tax to feed a woman and 30 babies in Africa. I would rather not.

 

[clivehorridge]

You should not be allowed to vote then

Don't want you mucking up my future knowing you're going to kick the bucket tomorrow

(as I am sure you know - I jest)

I think it has been a fascinating read. We're a net contributor to the EU. That is inevitable if you're in a collective and you're richer than the rest. I pay taxes so lazy f**k-tards can sit at home on benefits. However, someone who is on child support also works as a cleaner for someone who is not.

The argument for leaving because we pay in massively to the EU does not make much sense. If it did then I would want to live in a street with people who earn exactly the same as me. Please remove the council flats nearby. I don't want to know them.

Stop the money pumping into the EU?
So, do we then create a group of rich countries where we don't have to help out the poorer ones? Let's say France, Germany, UK, Holland etc. That way we won't pay in anything to the club. The poorer ones will sort them selves out.
At some point, we'll be overrun by people seeking to come to the big club (much like is what's happening now if the refugees). They'll speak Greek, Italian, Irish, Spanish etc. (How many people did I offend in one go )

Yes, we pump money into the EU. But I pump money into the tax system so that lazy knobs, and the less fortunate, are supported and helped. I in turn get stability (South Africa - no to little social care, colossal crime rate one of the side effects) and I get labour cheaper - the lady on social care will work for £12 an hour cleaning my house. Penelope, from the rich road, will do no such thing.


Like has been said, the INs and OUTs need to stop the stupid arguments and actually come up with reasons why we should vote in or out - not why-not.

Will the EU ever be perfect? Nope. No collective is. The tax system is not. I pay tax to feed a woman and 30 babies in Africa. I would rather not.

Can't knock any of that Cris, although I'm sure there will be plenty thinking (maybe saying) charity begins at home. Folks don't seem to realize or care, that what is important in this world is providing a reasonable standard of living for its populous. OK some don't care as long as they're ok, but they should.

Here for example, it was like stepping back in time when I came here 16 years ago. A lot has changed since, but there's a lot that hasn't. Most of the Eastern European countries were held back from proper development, meaning for the good of the people. At the time of the revolution in '89, most families had a tv, but there was one channel, and apart from an episode of Dallas now and again (I know, I laughed too) it was 100% ceausescu propaganda.

And some Brits moan about the BBC.

People were not only hungry (because the gvt exported all the food to pay off debts) they were dying as a consequence, plus the poor hospital facilities and, and, and.

The EU will to an extent, be the savior of some of these countries, and rightly so, they can't wait to get in. Britain is (and should be) looking at this slightly differently, but whichever way, Britain and France and Germany, the have's will always be subsidizing the have not's.

That's life, at country level and at a personal level, unless you join some loony nazi party.

 

[Crispin]

Britain and France and Germany, the have's will always be subsidizing the have not's.

That's life, at country level and at a personal level, unless you join some loony nazi party.

I think that's the point that so many people are missing. The EU is - dare I say - another taxation.
When Chas posted about the 50 (55? let's not split hairs) million we pay a day then you look at it quite differently. But the bigger picture is quite different than that narrow view.

The UK leaving the EU looks like a question of "should the EU exist?". Of course it should. There is no question that the UK / German / French lifestyle has not changed for the worse since we joined (i.e we still have / have more money than we need, can go on holiday where we want) However, those that are brought into the fold are uplifted - the same way the low-wage, UK-born citizens who seek welfare support, are - and the net result is my TV is not stolen every other week by someone seeking to feed their children.


We leave, that puts a burdon on France / Germany of £55mil/2 a day. Soon, one of them will say sod-it and leave. And then? Then we're all less well off.

 

[Shayne]

The British Empire fell to democracy , the Soviet Union ran out of money despite being heavily subsidized buy the west on humanitarian grounds .

The reason we should quit is because borders promote competition and industry , what we have now is a gravy train of beggars who pass the buck looking for handouts on and on up the the gravy train until it reaches the Emperor of Europe's Court .

 

[Crispin]

...because borders promote competition and industry.

You think so? Granted it's a long time ago and things have changed but before the EU, were things more competitive than they are now? Take Airbus for example, a French company building massive planes. Those parts are made, not a comprehensive list (come on wikipedia - you let me down), in Germany, Spain, UK and France and I think Portugal. There are no expertise involved which the French could not do themselves if push came to shove. I am pretty sure we got to build the wings in Wales and the Engines in England because we're bloody good at it and fought hard to compete for the job. Not because it was drawn out of a hat. If we had borders, would that still happen? Sure it would - if the financial incentive was there then we would buy them from anywhere in the world.

The flip-side is also quite true. The UK used to make so many different cars. We could not keep manufacturing and selling those even though we had an open market and a customer base of many-millions of people. There are other factors at play which helped their demise but removing a large chunk / making it harder of a market is not ideal.

what we have now is a gravy train of beggars who pass the buck looking for handouts on and on up the the gravy train until it reaches the Emperor of Europe's Court .

The gravy train will always live strong; nationally and internationally. You can only change from within though.

 

[Rob Cowell]

The British Empire fell to democracy

Just showed this to my Irish wife. Always good to wind up.

 

[chapel gate]

The former British Empire?

no, it didn't fail nor was it defeated. only the loony left seem to beat themselves,(and others) up about it..

I think clive summed it up well.

the third reich, ottoman empire, mongol empire, roman empire were defeated to name a few. the union of socialist soviet republics collapsed in on itself.

 

[Ben]

Well I've finally filled in all the online forms so that as a British citizen I can vote from this side of the world!

Unlike a huge majority of British expats who will selfishly vote to stay in, for fear of loosing benefits and privileges, I will be voting out.

If the UK stays in and Turkey joins, I hate to think how completely and utterly f****d the whole of the EU, including Britain will be!

 

[Shayne]

Nice one Ben i chuckled to see a newsflash yesterday "her majesty the queen has complained that a newspaper reported hearing her state that Britain would be better off out of the eu because the monarchy does not involve itself in political matters" propaganda at its best i reckon well done Marm

 

[Pat]

we have referendum on what flag we hould have.it closes on the 22 nd of March.the choice is between our current flag the blue ensign with 4 stars of the southern cross and an abortion of a thing with black and blue with a fern running through.My father and my mothers folks came to NZ and acknowledged the Union Jack and it seem the majority want No Change but we have a Yankee loving prime minister and his cronies who want change. A lot of people suspect that there will be underhand shenanigans and that the vote will be fraudulent.So we have big problems in the colonies.

 

[Brian S]

Just a few links for you to have a ponder on.

If Turkey joins and we are still in they will be entitled to get the same as this, with us paying the bill

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XawshjZ_Eqc

This I copied from under the video

"Viktor Orban, Hungary’s Prime Minister, has told his parliament that Cameron got nothing and reassures them that Hungarians who have not paid contributions will still get UK benefits:"

“the real debate was about there being benefits which workers do not pay for, but for which they are nonetheless eligible. The question was what should happen with benefits paid to third-country nationals, for which no contributions are paid in Britain. Here, too, we have succeeded in ensuring that these social benefits cannot be taken away… This means that we have even succeeded in protecting benefits which people working in the United Kingdom did not pay for in the form of contributions.”

More bad news that the EU doesn't want us to know about until AFTER the referendum, in case we learn the truth about what will happen if we should vote to stay IN

http://www.politico.eu/article/brus...button-uk-referendum-campaign-eu-legislation/


An article on the IN campaigns arguments for staying and the countering of them

http://thescepticisle.com/2016/03/08/europhile-myths-debunked/#more-2685

All about getting Britain out
http://getbritainout.org/

Taken from the above


“Not 1 job is at risk from Brexit”

This was forcibly stated by Lord Digby Jones, the former Director General of the CBI and ex Minister of State for Trade and Investment.

He observed how Britain will secure a free-trade agreement with the EU immediately following Brexit ensuring no disruption to trade. (Sunday Politics, 31st January 2016)

This is the FB page to the above link
Lots of articles in here, you don't need a faceache account to read it

https://www.facebook.com/GetBritainOut



{ADMIN EDIT} Fixed for you