eu in or out poll

[fast but dim]

That is a superb arguement for "in"...I'm undecided, as I haven't studied the pro's and con's of EU membership. I fully intend to get informed, and make a considered, rational decision.

My worry is that the nation's xenophobes and racists will vote us "out" without thinking of the repercussions.

In for me.

Everyone else is chucking in their opinion too so here goes.

Our own idea of democracy is a joke ! We export it worldwide yet we have a monarchy that meddles in politics far beyond just knocking on the door to open parliament.
Some of the same people who relish in this serfdom often also seem to object to "unelected tyrants in Brussels" without a hint of irony . For me democracy is like pregnancy... You either are or you are not.
As far as reasons to be in or out, In an increasingly competitive jobs market I would like my kids to have an opportunity to choose to work in any one of the member states rather than sit on a zero hours contract at a pie factory at the end of the lane.
Once we vote out (which will probably happen thanks to decades of media propaganda) My kids will recieve their Irish passports through their grandparents heritage to increase their opportunities for work.
The checks and balances offered by European laws including the much criticised "Human rights act" offer us far more protection than our own crooked legal system ever has.
The subsidies given by Europe are all that keeps our farming industry running.
Our pension crisis will only be averted by an increase in the workforce, we simply cannot supply the workforce without immigration. If you want to see what restrictive immigration does to an economy look to Japan http://www.economist.com/blogs/banyan/2014/03/japans-demography
Without seeming crass and being a bit too Basil Fawlty about it all. If thereis a nation who is going to be a little hesitant as regards to having large groups of immigrants of different ethnicity and culture increasing their population, lets face it its probably going to be Germany, Yet they are the most accomodating of all and the most powerful economy in Europe at the same time... Curious that.

 

[Ben]

I think the Turkey issue is a big enough reason on its own, forgetting all the other issues!

Giving visa free access to 77 million poor people who will be free to move anywhere in Europe, claim benefits, housing, health care, schools etc. is going to be disastrous!

 

[Rob Cowell]

I think the Turkey issue is a big enough reason on its own, forgetting all the other issues!

Giving visa free access to 77 million poor people who will be free to move anywhere in Europe, claim benefits, housing, health care, schools etc. is going to be disastrous!

Turkey is getting visa free travel, not the right to claim benefits in the EU for its citizens. Cyprus and Greece aren't flinging open the doors to EU accession.

 

[Shayne]

Page 5 of my passport is stamped "Not entitled to EU benefits" which hasn't effected me in any way whatsoever .

 

[Rob Cowell]

What EU benefits have you claimed? I assume you can get UK benefits through being a citizen of a Crown Dependency?

 

[Shayne]

Nope i have no idea what benefits the EU can offer but i'm happy to do without them . I arrived in the UK a hospital inpatient gone awol and eventually spent several hours in the immigration office in Cardiff , most of those hours were spent with them trying to find someone who spoke English as a first language to interview me . In the end i was paid and the bill was sent to the Isle of Man .

Reciprocal agreements , we are not voting to oppose or ostracize ourselves from our allies , the EU supposedly stands for freedom , Brits aren't going to be frogmarched out of France because we voted out . We are voting for self governance and nothing more .

 

[Rob Cowell]

Sorry Shayne, I assumed your statement about your passport was related to my statement about the rights of Turks when they gain visa free movement in the EU. The perils of chronological browsing.

 

[Chas]

Page 5 of my passport is stamped "Not entitled to EU benefits" which hasn't effected me in any way whatsoever .

I've just looked through my passport and I can't see any reference to any sort of benefits. Is yours an Isle of Man one Shayne?

 

[Rob Cowell]

I'm guessing it'll be like the Guernsey passport where they add something like that if you are "proper" Guernsey. No British parent or grandparent, and do not reside, or haven't resided for more than a few years in the UK.

 

[Shayne]

My father was English i spent the first few years being kidnapped from one school and shipped to another . I was asked when i was about 16 and in I.O.M Gov offices getting my passport if i was British or Manx , being born on the Island and having nothing to thank my father for i said Manx . I can't find my newer passport right now but Helen thinks the note on page 5 might not be in it ?

 

[Shayne]

Back to the debate .

I understand the fear and doubt about Brexit but where is the argument - it is better for us to stay in because because what ? what does membership give us as a country that we can't do for ourselves ?

 

[Rob Cowell]

Back to the debate .

I understand the fear and doubt about Brexit but where is the argument - it is better for us to stay in because because what ? what does membership give us as a country that we can't do for ourselves ?

It gives the population of the UK a stable and prosperous Europe with half a billion-plus people able to benefit from the cooperation and joint success of the members of that union.

Unless someone wants to propose that Europe will be more prosperous and stable without us.

 

[Shayne]

Nobody doubts our membership is good for Europe but what does it give us ?

 

[Rob Cowell]

A stable Europe. The big thing next door that is massively expensive and destructive for the UK when it's unstable and impoverished.

The us thing just depends on where you think people who matter live. I think they stop mattering hugely just after my front door. And after that they're all much of a muchness. I think therein lies many of the different feelings around the concept of nations and government.

 

[Shayne]

So we get nothing .

 

[Rob Cowell]

You get nothing. I get something. Hence the intransigence.

 

[hopeless wanderer]

For me gazing into the distant future, The EU is a positive thing.
As we stand now Britain has lost it's place as a manufacturer to countries where low cost labour is available, We don't produce steel or mine coal or make cars (of our own) anymore. Sure you can buy a Nissan from Sunderland or a Honda from Swindon and even (if you lose a grip on reality) a Land Rover from Birmingham. The point being we have traded our place as a manufacturing based nation to a finance/technical based nation, Our economy almost revolves around Wanky city types trading invisible wealth with their counterparts overseas.
In the Europe i'd like to see, we would have the various states each playing their strengths toward increasing the wealth of the whole. When the Euro although its a single currency has a different value accross member states can mean we invest in manufaturing in a state which has lower labour costs (Pick an Eastern European country) We can then rival the Chinese who have basically taken manufature away from everyone. Instead of buying some shite knocked up in a factory in Guandong you could buy a British or German designed product, built in a Romanian factory to exacting European standards with workers being paid a fair days pay equivalent to their cost of living. We can export said goods outside the Eurozone to the benefit of all.
This sits better with me than a poor Bengali kid the same age as my kids, stuck in a garment factory working a 16 hour shift for a dollar to make a shirt that they sell to me for 60quid so some CEO of a company can make millions a year and shareholder can get a big fat payout.

I'm gonna stop now in case you realise i'm a palm wringing communist who eats tofu ....

 

[froggy Steve]

Well said that man

 

[Ben]

Turkey is getting visa free travel, not the right to claim benefits in the EU for its citizens. Cyprus and Greece aren't flinging open the doors to EU accession.

They are getting visa free travel from June. If/When they become a full EU member, they will be free to come and do all the things I mentioned above!

 

[Shayne]

For me gazing into the distant future, The EU is a positive thing.
As we stand now Britain has lost it's place as a manufacturer to countries where low cost labour is available, We don't produce steel or mine coal or make cars (of our own) anymore. Sure you can buy a Nissan from Sunderland or a Honda from Swindon and even (if you lose a grip on reality) a Land Rover from Birmingham. The point being we have traded our place as a manufacturing based nation to a finance/technical based nation, Our economy almost revolves around Wanky city types trading invisible wealth with their counterparts overseas.
In the Europe i'd like to see, we would have the various states each playing their strengths toward increasing the wealth of the whole. When the Euro although its a single currency has a different value accross member states can mean we invest in manufaturing in a state which has lower labour costs (Pick an Eastern European country) We can then rival the Chinese who have basically taken manufature away from everyone. Instead of buying some shite knocked up in a factory in Guandong you could buy a British or German designed product, built in a Romanian factory to exacting European standards with workers being paid a fair days pay equivalent to their cost of living. We can export said goods outside the Eurozone to the benefit of all.
This sits better with me than a poor Bengali kid the same age as my kids, stuck in a garment factory working a 16 hour shift for a dollar to make a shirt that they sell to me for 60quid so some CEO of a company can make millions a year and shareholder can get a big fat payout.

I'm gonna stop now in case you realise i'm a palm wringing communist who eats tofu ....

Didn't Abraham Lincoln have such a dream America must be heaven on earth by now then