Great White - Progress so far.

Chris

Super Moderator
Supporter
I am in europe
Feb 24, 2010
17,176
3,942
113
Chesterfield, Derbyshire
Garage
Well rushed home from London today to have a look at the front brakes. It pulls pretty hard which given that the side that isn't working properly is the new caliper, you have to be suspicious.

Well, firstly, the caliper bolts were not tight, not like I would describe as tight anyway. Very new unit that's for sure. Piston boot caught and lifted up so that needed putting back, Damn those stupid snap rings are a pain. On pulling the pads, I was surprised to find the braking surface pretty much smothered in grease. Yep - grease. The fella who sold it was nice - but a mechanic not! So a good clean up, can of cleaner and some torquing later, the brakes are better but need some settling in and I think a good bleed. Who knows how much air he left in for free. Handbrake is non functioning - so familiar territory there then. It had two or three new calipers so will be taking the back end off next to see what horror of diy fixing I find. It' shad two new rear discs so we've something to work with at least. Should have handbrake by Saturday lunchtime.

But.... I think that I may, just might, possibly, only guessing now, have found the problem with the ABS light.

Can you see what I can see?

IMGP4029.jpg


Looks like the ABS sensor has met with an untimely end. Totally bodgered. At least the loom and clip are intact. Just need a sensor. Any wisdom on that? Yes, I know - the brake backing disc is missing too. Where'd that go? The retaining bolt for the sensor bracket has be broken off. Looks like old damage. Going to have to get that out carefully. It's flush.

Bad news is that when I rock the wheel 12 O'clock and 6 O'clock there is detectable movement in the end of the errrr, hub? thing. Side to side none - but top to bottom a little bit. Diagnosis please.

Chris
 

Rob

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2010
3,019
16
38
Bristol
Garage
the abs sensor is gonna cost you allot form toyota as they only sell the entire front axle loom and both sensors as a kit. i would talk to stef if i were you

also sounds like you need new steering bearings (i think thats what they are called). looks like a front hub rebuild is a priority
 

Justin_Elliott

Well-Known Member
Supporter
I am in great_britain
Apr 3, 2010
464
4
38
Isle of Wight
Garage
Chris,

Congrats on the purchase btw...

The rocking sounds like a loose wheel bearing - probably not had the preload set properly.

If you knock off the little end cap and rock the wheel again does the axle move in relation to the hub - if so wheel bearing.. if not it could be your knuckle bearings - eitherway not difficult to fix.

From looking at your previous post you'll be striping the front axle down fairly soon so can investigate this then...

Just done my first strip down/rebuild and it wasn't as bad as I thought. Just do your homework first and have the spares to hand as suggested by others.

Hope this helps.


J
 

Chris

Super Moderator
Supporter
I am in europe
Feb 24, 2010
17,176
3,942
113
Chesterfield, Derbyshire
Garage
Thanks J it does. It would appear the there has been some work done on the front hubs as there are stickers in the door shut stating which grease has been used. As there is no CV knock and it all looks pretty good, the hub rebuild is not number one priority. It will get done, but other things to do first. I shall ready all of the write up and amass all of the kit and parts needed. Not had a chance to look at movement relative to axle. Only just got it yesterday and had to go to work today - Boo hoo.

Chris
 
Don't like the adverts? Remove them by becoming a supporting member.   Click here

Jon Wildsmith

Super Moderator
Supporter
Guru
I am in england
Feb 24, 2010
6,728
149
63
Stourbridge, West Midlands, England
Garage
When you're doing the 6 & 12 rocking thing, if the caliper moves with the wheel it's the swivel bearings otherwise it's wheel bearing. The other symptom for wheel bearing is if after going round a few bends the break pedal goes down a bit further than usual before it bites but your other brake problems might mask that.

Not sure about the ABS fault, might be that though :lol:

EDIT: torque the caliper bolts to spec - over tightening them leads to failure as often as under tightening them but it's usually harder to fix.
 

Andy Harvey

Well-Known Member
Mar 6, 2010
343
3
38
Cheltenham, UK
Chris.

Scrap yard for the ABS sensor. Visit it though and check that it is still working - quick check, hold it against a metal part and check it is still magnetic, should be reasonably strong - I know that isn't a very technical way to check but it should get you one that isn't FUBAR. If you go to Toyota they want an arma nd a leg as they sell the sensor complete with the Loom for that side - don't ask me why they think you need to replace perfectly serviceable wiring.

Also you can check simply if the ABS sensor currently on the vehicle is working, if it isn't magnetic at all then bin it. Surprisingly even if it has swarf all over it, a good clean and it might still work. Mind you not quite sure what you are showing on the picture - is it as it looks that the top part of the sensor which the plug fits on is actually broken off - if so then it's a binary decision - throw it.

On the hub play would suspect swivel bearings - reasonably easy to change. However it could be loose fixing bolts but generally it's the bearings that are buggered. If it was wheel bearings I would expect top to bottom play AND side to side play - also possibly with a bit of in / out play too.

With the bracket for the ABS sensor, try and get that complete on the spare one from the scrappy.

Pity it's now, I had a good spare one up until recently and a brake backplate. Both went in a bin liner and down the dump cos they were the only pieces left from my 80.

Personally having seen the situation you are in I would get the hub rebuild done as one of the first job. Do it right and it will give you no trouble, try and keep it going on what may have been bodged jobs and you will forever be tightening up the wheel bearings and the time you spend doing that you could have rebuilt the hub - based on you experience, 4 hours should see you do both sides even if the swivel bearings need replacing, it isn't a hard job, just messy.

Just to add to Jon's post, tighten the capliper fixing bolts with a spanner before torquing them up, very easy to over tighten the whereas if you use a spanner unless you are a real strongarm monkey you won't really be able to over tighten them.
 

Chris

Super Moderator
Supporter
I am in europe
Feb 24, 2010
17,176
3,942
113
Chesterfield, Derbyshire
Garage
Thanks Guys all useful. Andy, all the jobs will get done - but in priority order. As it is not a my daily vehicle, it's not actually going anywhere. I have taxed it so that I can park it on the road instead of doing a SORN notice and parking it on the drive, but basically I'm not going to be doing many miles in it just yet. Going to get it mechanically right top to bottom first. Going to pick off the smaller but still important jobs until I get time to do the larger ones like the axle. Want to get to know it first too. Steadily building a worksheet for it. Looking long. But at the end of it, there should be a pretty good example. Can't really start on drive train until I can get a clear run and do it start to finish. Difficult to move it with no wheels on if you get me. it does drive very straight I have to say. No vagueness about it all.

Chris
 

Justin_Elliott

Well-Known Member
Supporter
I am in great_britain
Apr 3, 2010
464
4
38
Isle of Wight
Garage
Ok maybe wrong on the wheel bearing but for what its worth this is/was my thinking:

If wheel bearing is preloaded correctly CV/axle is effectively held in line with hub - as the axle is moving independant of hub it is imo more likely to be wheel bearing. Side to side movement would be hard to detect as steering arm is still connected.

I'm new to these trucks though so I would give these other gents more credibility...
 

Chris

Super Moderator
Supporter
I am in europe
Feb 24, 2010
17,176
3,942
113
Chesterfield, Derbyshire
Garage
Not as new as me. Still pondering all the bits inside the hub bit. Pretty complex. Not complicated - just complex. Need to read the strip down posts again and start getting a shopping list together.

Chris
 

Andy Harvey

Well-Known Member
Mar 6, 2010
343
3
38
Cheltenham, UK
Justin_Elliott said:
Ok maybe wrong on the wheel bearing but for what its worth this is/was my thinking:

If wheel bearing is preloaded correctly CV/axle is effectively held in line with hub - as the axle is moving independant of hub it is imo more likely to be wheel bearing. Side to side movement would be hard to detect as steering arm is still connected.

I'm new to these trucks though so I would give these other gents more credibility...
Get where you're coming from however you should be able to detect wheel bearing wear on side to side as because it is a taper bearing, when it is loose then side to side will be perceptable between the hub and the axle - the axle/cv won't have a positive sideways location in the hub. As the wheel bearing wears on these, the loading on the bearing loosens which is why you should check every 10-20K miles or so to make sure it is still tight especially if you are doing lots of muddy, dusty or deep water stuff.

Chris, one thing you might also want to add to the list is to check and adjust the steering box, it's unlikely you will have got away without some slack in it, easy job to do from the top adjusting the backlash screw. Makes an amazing difference as do new anti-roll bar bushes.

Good luck with it all anyway, you won't regret the purchase and I am sure the work will now be done to your usual high standard and I'm sure it won't be recognisable in a few months time.
 

Gilbert v H

Active Member
Apr 7, 2010
88
0
16
Aberdeenshire
Rob said:
the abs sensor is gonna cost you allot form toyota as they only sell the entire front axle loom and both sensors as a kit. i would talk to stef if i were you

also sounds like you need new steering bearings (i think thats what they are called). looks like a front hub rebuild is a priority
Stef has some, I believe he quoted me £35.
 

Chris

Super Moderator
Supporter
I am in europe
Feb 24, 2010
17,176
3,942
113
Chesterfield, Derbyshire
Garage
OK it's on the list. Thanks. Phew, not getting shorter. But one thing I have already said is that it drives very very straight. No wobble, wheel in the middle, no vibration or rattle, no slop in the wheel at all, pretty tight in the corners, zero body roll, brakes very flat, no tail lift. Pretty encouraged by that having driven others. Will sort work shop manual too so that I can get even more lost! Just read hub strip down again. Looks good - if you like grease. Need to see if I can get a 25kg bucket from somewhere.

Thanks Gilbert - need to get that sorted for sure

Chris
 

Jon Wildsmith

Super Moderator
Supporter
Guru
I am in england
Feb 24, 2010
6,728
149
63
Stourbridge, West Midlands, England
Garage
Battered and Blue said:
start getting a shopping list together.
inner and outer hub bearing, hub seal, thrust washer, a snap ring (they get lost, you DO want a spare one trust me) and a few lock washers should be in your emergency 'I'm supposed to be using it this weekend' kit. Also a 54mm hub nut socket and snap ring pliers if you didn't have those for the 90. Beyond that you're into slightly more serious territory where you might not be done in time anyway unless you throw a sicky ;)
 

Chris

Super Moderator
Supporter
I am in europe
Feb 24, 2010
17,176
3,942
113
Chesterfield, Derbyshire
Garage
So basically Jon, pretty much order enough for a three wheel LC when I speak to Ian.

OK message received but alarmed that if done properly I might have to do it again. I only did 3k in Lil Blue last year. How long are these things supposed to last???? Not going to be cheap this, is it. The CVs are fine, but what's the point in going in there and leaving them only to have to come back. I guess they could stand as spares in the kit too. Snap ring pliers? Never used any. They just click on, on a 90. Socket on the list already. Where does the thrust washer go Jon? Didn't see that in the pictorial.

Chris
 

Jon Wildsmith

Super Moderator
Supporter
Guru
I am in england
Feb 24, 2010
6,728
149
63
Stourbridge, West Midlands, England
Garage
I should have added a couple of drive flange gaskets to that as well. You rarely need them but if you don't have one spare you can bet you will ...

The thrust washer goes between the 54mm hub nuts and the outer bearing race. When the bearings don't have enough pre-load then typicaly the race spins against the thrust washer and wears a groove in it. You can flip them and put the other face against the bearing but if it's already been flipped you need a new one or the bearing always seems to lose pre-load again quite quickly.

If your CV's are ok e.g. not clicking really badly then leave them alone for now or only plan to repack them when you have time rather than replace. Just check the diff oil isn't turning to sludge and you can afford to leave the leaky swivel for now. The CV will be fine with diff oil in it for a while IMO but the diff will after a while object to running on grease.
 

Chris

Super Moderator
Supporter
I am in europe
Feb 24, 2010
17,176
3,942
113
Chesterfield, Derbyshire
Garage
Thanks Jon, going to check the essential fluids this weekend. That's a red on the worksheet for me. The CVs don't click AT ALL. Car park, full lock, in circles either way, under acceleration etc - not a click to be heard. As I don't need the vehicle all the time, I may strip it first and inspect everything. Not wanting to scrimp on vital bits, but it MIGHT have been done already. There was a receipt for £400 for doing the front diff bearings. They will have to have had the half shafts out for that, I presume. SO maybe some bits were replaced. Yes - understood with oil in cv but not grease in diff. When I come to do this, it would make sense to do everything. Wiper seals, bearings, top and bottom trunnion things. But let's a get a handle on what it needs first.

Still be happier when one of you guys and seen it and given it a thumbs up. But feeling happier about it already. Bit like getting an older dog from the rescue centre, you really know nothing about it straight away. I don't want to do any long trips until I have seen to all the vitals myself. It's a trust thing.
ope Tony doesn't feel like that about LB 'cos I can assure him that there are no nasties lurking.

Springs and dampers, although going to be replaced seem really good. There are absolutely no squeaks or rattles at all when you drive it, even on rough ground. It's what I'd call tight.

Chris
 

Chris

Super Moderator
Supporter
I am in europe
Feb 24, 2010
17,176
3,942
113
Chesterfield, Derbyshire
Garage
Thanks Jon. Should go with all the black accessories that I have planned! I think Robs charcoal flares look better then the white one. It's a bit like an ice cream van at present. You had your snork painted didn't you. Reckon I could have the flares done same way?

Chris
 

Dave Docwra

Well-Known Member
Apr 24, 2010
1,591
11
38
Enfield
If the picture at the start of the post was taken with the steering straight ahead the track rod ends want looking at ie: are they worn or set at different angles to each other.
If you do a diff oil change, you will get an indication wether the axle shaft seals have failed.
 

TonyP

Super Moderator
Supporter
I am in uk
Feb 25, 2010
3,241
555
113
Goffs Oak
Battered and Blue said:
ope Tony doesn't feel like that about LB 'cos I can assure him that there are no nasties lurking.
100% happy with LB, I got in it and drove it down at 75-85mph without any issues at all. You did a good job on LB with everything done to a high standard, and I am sure you will do the same on GW. As my technical abilities are a bit shite I can't help you with any advice, but there are loads of other better informed folk on here.
 
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks