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How good are 80 brakes?

Chris

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I have a 94 with the larger brakes. I have replaced pads, OEM on front and Ferrodo on the rear. Two new rear discs, front look recent. Two new calipers and others serviced with seal etc and all pistons extending / retracting just fine. Plenty of pedal feel, system bled including the LSV, ABS working -but the brakes just don't feel like they will stop me in a hurry! OK big truck, not much engine braking, transmission still pushing you along but the brakes do not inspire me with confidence. Is this pretty much usual, or are 80 brakes typically good. I don't know what else to try really. They are not rubbish, but they don't exactly put you through the windscreen. I have seen some with grooved discs is this worth looking at?


Perceived wisdom appreciated

Chris
 

AndyCook

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have a shot in someone elses 80 to get a benchmark to see how brakes perform in that

does the 8o series have rubber flexy brake pipes near callipers - I know its not IFS , but i may have at least one pipe per axle like the rear of the 90 - they could be "balloning" slightly and robbing some brake power
 

Jon Wildsmith

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They're never great but with your relatively small tyres they shouldn't seem too bad. The setting of the LSPV can make a big difference and is what I'd experiment with first. Also the flexy hoses can be replaced with extended SS braided ones which might help with pedal feel a bit. AFAIK slotted discs will only really help with prolonged / heavy braking and will do nothing for normal braking efficiency.
 

Chris

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Know what you are saying Andy, but there is plenty of pedal feel. It just doesn't really slow down. Like the brake discs are teflon coated. I am on 33" rubber too which makes a difference but that have always been like that. It stops in a straight line which is a good sign. Driving another is a good comparison, but unfortunately I don't happen to have a neighbour with one! Discs are clean. Have used brake cleaner on them to make sure they weren't greasy. Originally they diff oil leaking down them. So I junked those pads once I stopped the leak. I just might be aiming for something that isn't there. That's all I am after. An impression. Are 80 brakes generally rubbish. I never thought much of 90 brakes either to be fair. I have owned a lot of Toyotas and until this Verso, have never had really good brakes on any of them compared to other cars I have driven. I think that Clean and Green has landed on a good combination of pads and renovation and is now impressed with his 90. Just keen to get to the same point. It's a big old truck that's for sure.

Just seen post Jon - any tips or links to setting up the LSV?

Chris
 

Andrew Prince

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Generally not great in standard form and big tyres make it noticeably worse. Anecdotally from people who have driven Julian V or Adrian R's 80s with grooved discs, fancy brakepads (Mintek?) and maybe braided hoses, the braking is markedly better.
Mine is adequate but not wonderful - when the various parts are due for replacement I will upgrade accordingly.
 

SimonD

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Julian V has just upgraded mine with the grooved discs, pads and braided hoses. I pick the truck up this weekend so will let you know the difference. Before the upgrade, mine were sluggish and pulled to the left quite badly so I'm expecting a difference. He's bedding them in at the moment.
 
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Jon Wildsmith

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Chris said:
Just seen post Jon - any tips or links to setting up the LSV?
Did you adjust it when you did the lift? If not then the I don't think the rear brakes will be doing much work. You adjust the rod at the axle end but I can't remember if there's enough adjustment for a 2" lift, I know there isn't for 4+ inch lifts. It's quite easy to extend the bracket if needed though. I would raise the rod in increments, say 25mm at a time until the rear wheels start locking up under heavy braking and then back it off somewhat from there till it feels right. I cheated on my old 80 and cut the rod at the LSPV and adjusted it by hand but technicaly it should fail an MOT like that :roll:

If you're having trouble getting wheels to lock up then there might be something else needs addressing before the LSPV.
 

Chris

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Hmm, interesting guys, thanks. Look forward to a report then Simon. I'll see how it turns out and if worth it, I shall track down the parts perhaps.

Chris
 

Chris

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Sorry Jon - post leap-frog there. No I didn't adjust it. I shall set to asap. Maybe that's it. Now they never were very good without the lift. But who's to say that the valve was right when I bought it.

Next job is a twiddle with the fuel settings as it is positively pedestrian to drive. So need the brakes working if I intend to drive above 20 mph. :p

Chris

PS Jon, is there a link somewhere to the full service manual for the 80. I only have snippets. Don't know if it's in installments but I certainly don't have a full set.
 

Jon Wildsmith

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You mean these?

RM172E - 1PZ, 1HZ, 1HD-T ENGINE REPAIR MANUAL
http://www.mudtoys.com/manuals/RM172E.pdf (31MB)

RM184E - REPAIR MANUAL FOR CHASSIS & BODY
http://www.mudtoys.com/manuals/RM184E.pdf (121MB)

RM314E - A442F AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION REPAIR MANUAL (Aug 1992)
http://www.mudtoys.com/manuals/RM314E.pdf (16MB)

RM314E SUPPLEMENT (Jan 1995)
http://www.mudtoys.com/manuals/RM314E-1 ... lement.pdf (3MB)

RM315E - REPAIR MANUAL SUPPLEMENT FOR CHASSIS & BODY (Aug 1992)
http://www.mudtoys.com/manuals/RM315E.pdf (70MB)

RM437E - 1HD-FT ENGINE REPAIR MANUAL (Jan 1995)
http://www.mudtoys.com/manuals/RM437E.pdf (120MB)
 

Julian

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Sorry for hijack
Jon, do you have an electrical one for the 100 series?
 

Chris

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Oooh arrrr! They be the ones me hearty. Now I can really take things to bits properly

Ta

Chris
 

Jon Wildsmith

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Julian said:
Sorry for hijack
Jon, do you have an electrical one for the 100 series?
I don't have the whole EWD manual as a single pdf but the actual wiring diagrams are @ www.mudtoys.com/manuals/100/oewd.pdf . I'm still working my way through the rest of that pdf collection concatenating them as I've done for the main and engine repair manuals (www.mudtoys.com/manuals/100/05rm.pdf , 06erm.pdf & 08erm.pdf). The missing pdf's are just wiring routing, relay locations and a connector list so you're not missing much.
 

Lorin

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On older cars one of the best brake upgrades you can do (after you've done the whole discs, pads and braided brake lines) is fit a larger servo and larger diameter master cylinder, usually from a later model that is directly compatible. This has the effect of providing greater braking force for less pedal movement and the same amount of pedal pressure.

Are there compatible servos/master cylinders that are bigger than the standard 80 and could be used to do this, such as off the 100 series?
 

Chris

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Well having considered Jon's wisdom, I just tried backing the truck up and sticking the brakes on. In reverse, the back brakes should take the loading. They didn't. I don't think that there is any braking going on at the back. Time to have a go at that link.

Chris
 

Andy Harvey

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Chris.

Just to add, the pads you use can make a big difference. I have always used pads from Milners - I think they may be a bit softer than the OEM ones because the braking performance was great on my 80 - mind you the pads did not last as long as OEM. Plus I never did much towing and never drove it like a sports car so I never really had any problem with brake fade. I have just fitted EBC 6000 pads to my 100 and the braking performance on that is also better than the last set - mind you also just fitted new discs as well. I can pretty much stand the 100 on it's nose now if I need to - certainly could brake far harder than I would really want to do generally. As a comparison, my Wife has a Mercedes A190 (the performance one) on which the brakes are markedly inferior to either the 80 I had or the 100 I have now.
 

Richard Jackaman

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You might have to make an extension bracket for the axel end of the lspv rod. When I lifted my 70 series I couldn't get enough adjustment in the lspv mounting itself to get much rear braking. Adding a bracket to the axel to lift the connection sorted the problem and improved the braking a lot. Haven't checked but I think that the 80 series is similar to the 70 in this respect.

2010-08-03_1010422.jpg


Cheers
 

Chris

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Well that was worth a face full of falling crud. I adjusted the rod to full and tried it. It felt different, certainly more braking at the back. In reverse it slammed me into the seat. OK here's the science. Where it was there was not enough braking at the back. :thumbdown: Where I moved it to, there was not enough braking at the front. :thumbdown: So in a highly complex calculation involving star positions, gravitational fields, the noises that dolphins make when happy and a length of old clothes line, I set it halfway between.

Well would you Adam and Eve it. Much better. OK you wouldn't confuse them with being super car ceramic brakes, but MUCH better. :thumbup: :thumbup:

Chris
 

Dave Burgess

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There was a set of measurements on 'the other side' and it wasn't a great deal of adjustment required (something like 1.5mm per 25mm lift) which with the metric coarse thread and with your (and my) springs is about 2 and a half turns of the doo-dad. That is always assuming yours was where it should have been and the rod hasn't been bent in the intervening 16 years - like mine had! :doh:

I ended up doing the same as you and came to the same conclusions...

As an observation on the 80s' brakes, they don't inspire confidence initially but when you press firming they do the job quite well. There are at least 4 rubber hoses on the axle and a few more elsewhere so with your adjustments and some braided hoses in the future you should be good to go - rather, to stop :D
 

Chris

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Yes Dave. Could be tempted into the braided hoses. But much happier now. Bent? Uhm yes, difficult not to be really. It's a bit of a bonkers design.

Chris
 
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